Paralyzed snails, assuming dinos

[DonF]

My son and I have been battling what we initially though we’re stubborn diatoms for several months, but are now convinced are dinos.

They only live on the sand, go away in dark, come out in the light.

LFS looked at picture and said diatoms, then we mentioned that we bottomed out on nutrients (added healthy chaeto and new light to refugium. It took off and was too good at its job, we suspect) - they then agreed they’re probably dinos.

As a last diagnosis we stirred them up really well with the net handle, rather than siphon as we had been doing. Next day they were stringy and snotty, and no longer looked like diatoms.

Anyway, we tossed the chaeto and did a three day black out. We have Dino x on hand, but want to avoid unless necessary. Trying to bring phosphate and nitrate up with over feeding, nori, phytoplankton, and no water changes. Blackout just ended yesterday afternoon, so too early to know…

On to the snails! They are alive, but flip themselves over and halfway come out of their shells. Poke them and they go in. Flip and they move along the glass until they do it, again. We just moved them to the refugium where we think there are no dinos (at least not on surfaces - plenty of healthy algae in there, though).

Thoughts?

Obviously keeping chemistry in check and getting nitrate and phosphate back up are priority.

Fish, crabs, and tuxedo urchin are all fine. As are our SPS.

 

[Jekyl]

@vetteguy53081 has a method he recommends. I'll let him explain instead of getting it wrong or plagiarizing.

 

[CK00020]

Parameters will help, especially nitrate and phosphate

 

[vetteguy53081]

Snails - phosphate not much but I suspect elevated nitrates and even ph being off.
What Jekyl is referring to is described below. Its easy and requires patience and does work.
Are you using RODI water or tap water from the faucet ? Also, what test kits are you using ?

Prepare by starting with a water change and blow this stuff loose with a turkey baster and siphon up loose particles.
Turn lights off (at least white and run blue at 10-15%) for 5 days and at night dose 1ml of hydrogen peroxide per 10 gallons for all 5 nights. If you dont have light dependent coral- turn all lights off.
During the day dose 1ml of liquid bacteria (such as bacter 7) per 10 gallons.
Clean filters daily and DO NOT FEED CORAL FOODS OR ADD NOPOX as it is food for dinos.
Day 5,, you can start with blue lights - ramping up and work your white lights up slowly

 

[DonF]

Are you sing RODI water or tap water from the faucet ? Also, what test kits are you using ?

Yes. We have the BRS 5 stage. New carbon replacement filters came in mail, today. Membrane is less than a year old, and no color change, yet, in the other two stages. Also got Hanna phosphate and nitrate tests in mail today.

So, the 3 day blackout cleared it totally (so far, but only been 18 hours). Running only blue light today.

I’ve read about peroxide, but haven’t tried. We will do a full water test this afternoon and start the peroxide.

We use kalk in our ATO, and pH stays 8.2-8.4.

We were testing phosphate, nitrate, and nitrite with cheap API kit and they read 0. Hopefully the Hanna testers give more accurate results.

For ammonia we use Red Sea, and it was 0.1 3 days ago. Alkalinity, Magnesium, and Calcium we test with Red Sea. All fine. We dose BRS liquid Mg 3x a week.

Everything was going great and we had an explosion of coralline. Adding the chaeto was the only change.

We were hoping to eliminate our skimmer and just do chaeto b/c it’s a small setup - Red Reefer 750 (34 gallon display).

Thanks for advice on peroxide and lighting! We will start tonight.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Yes. We have the BRS 5 stage. New carbon replacement filters came in mail, today. Membrane is less than a year old, and no color change, yet, in the other two stages. Also got Hanna phosphate and nitrate tests in mail today.

So, the 3 day blackout cleared it totally (so far, but only been 18 hours). Running only blue light today.

I’ve read about peroxide, but haven’t tried. We will do a full water test this afternoon and start the peroxide.

We use kalk in our ATO, and pH stays 8.2-8.4.

We were testing phosphate, nitrate, and nitrite with cheap API kit and they read 0. Hopefully the Hanna testers give more accurate results.

For ammonia we use Red Sea, and it was 0.1 3 days ago. Alkalinity, Magnesium, and Calcium we test with Red Sea. All fine. We dose BRS liquid Mg 3x a week.

Everything was going great and we had an explosion of coralline. Adding the chaeto was the only change.

We were hoping to eliminate our skimmer and just do chaeto b/c it’s a small setup - Red Reefer 750 (34 gallon display).

Thanks for advice on peroxide and lighting! We will start tonight.

yes, API is inaccurate and often provides false readings.
Make sure black out is a full 5 days

 

[DonF]

yes, API is inaccurate and often provides false readings.
Make sure black out is a full 5 days

OK, just used the new Hanna equipment.

Nitrate up to 2.3 and phosphate is .04.

Making new RODI, now, after replacing the sediment and carbon filters. Meter says 0 TDS, but it did even before changing filters. 0 chlorine. Will do a 20% water change and retest.

 

[vetteguy53081]

OK, just used the new Hanna equipment.

Nitrate up to 2.3 and phosphate is .04.

Making new RODI, now, after replacing the sediment and carbon filters. Meter says 0 TDS, but it did even before changing filters. 0 chlorine. Will do a 20% water change and retest.

looking good.

 

[DonF]

looking good.

Dang. Today nitrate is 0.0 and phosphate is 0.1.

We just turned off the skimmer and put way too much food in.

Only have 4 fish - two mature clowns, a mature cardinal, and a newish flame angel. Perhaps we need more fish to generate some nitrate.

I ordered some Neo Nitrate and it will be here on Tuesday.

As for the snails, they are still alive in the refugium. One trochus perked up and is munching the glass. One other at least moved. The two turbos haven’t moved an inch, but I picked them up and they are alive. Weird. Plenty for them to eat in there.

Oh, started dosing the peroxide last night. ZERO sign of dinos, so far.

KH, Mg, Ca, NH3/4 all perfect. Only nitrate, nitrite and phosphate are low (like, non existent). The Hanna test gear is certainly easy to use, anyway, so we will test nutrient levels daily until we get this sorted.

Should we keep the refugium dark, or turn on the light on normal schedule? Switched our display’s program to “pirates of the Caribbean,” which is heavy on blue and very light on whites. Previously we ran David Saxby’s program.

 

[trsmith18]

I’m in a similar situation and am wondering about what to do with the refugium while dealing with Dino’s. Lights on at night, no lights (worried about Chaeto dying). It Chaeto a sink for dinos

my trochus snails are also flipped and not moving but alive.

following….