Particulates in water column are making me crazy

cshouston

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I’m going insane. My tank’s water has been a storm of particulate for months now. I removed the entire sand bed, put 50 micron filter socks in, and have done way too many water changes (I killed off so much coralline algae on my live rock by doing this, ugh). I’m at the point where I’m ready to sacrifice all the coral in the tank and just do a massive 100% water change. It’s irritating just to look at my tank up close right now. Because of my corner overflow setup, so much crap just never makes it into the overflow and filter socks.


Video compression doesn’t really show how insane the particulate storm is...
F7F7D85D-8366-4E62-B97C-C110F8B4F321.jpeg


zoom in on the image and you can really see just how much there is. It’s NOT cloudiness—the water is crystal clear. It’s just packed with tiny, tiny particles that make it look really dirty.

Is there anything I can do to remedy this without taking drastic measures and possibly stress/kill my coral? I doubt Clarity or some other flocculant would work, but I’ll try anything. I have one of those Marineland magnum filters with the “micron filter” (they don’t state the size anywhere, though) and it didn’t help.
 

Uncle99

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I’m thinking you need to increase flow towards overflow, only mechanical filtration, socks, floss, sponge will pull that.
We need to have flow constantly keeping things in the column where your socks can trap it......No?
 

Saltyreef

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Dont know how this is happening other than maybe too much flow in the sump kicking up settled debris.

Ive seen a few people plumb in a prefilter cartridge after their return pump as it goes back into the tank.
This WILL take care of your issue but you may need to adjust things like flowrate of pump later.

Id look into the sump first why sediment is being churned up.
 
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cshouston

cshouston

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I wish it were that simple. Something about the corner overflow setup makes it so difficult to do. Most particles in the column get pulled up the overflow wall, get to the weir and then flow back out instead of going into the overflow. Some do get sucked in, but even weeks of changing filter socks isn’t removing this crap.
 
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cshouston

cshouston

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Dont know how this is happening other than maybe too much flow in the sump kicking up settled debris.

Ive seen a few people plumb in a prefilter cartridge after their return pump as it goes back into the tank.
This WILL take care of your issue but you may need to adjust things like flowrate of pump later.

Id look into the sump first why sediment is being churned up.
There is a fair amount of flow going into the filter socks, but the flow in the sump isn’t too crazy. There is sediment at the bottom in the return pump chamber though... makes me think that when I turn the return pump off, the back flow kick its up, and when it turns back on, all the crap gets shot back into the tank. I just wish I knew how that sediment gets through the filter socks. I use 100 micron socks regularly, and even thew the 50 microns on there for a while.

I’m going to do my best to siphon out all the sump sediment and see if that helps at all.
 

Uncle99

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You sound like your not getting a good “pull” by the corner overflow. Are you in the 3-7x tank volume flow range.

You say decent flow into the socks, but the flow in the sump is not to crazy, assuming this means slow.....but that does not make sense, the inflow must be relative to the flow in the sump or your return would go dry.

I have to change my socks every two days to prevent them from overflowing into the sump, then, they are 100% in effective.
 
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cshouston

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You sound like your not getting a good “pull” by the corner overflow. Are you in the 3-7x tank volume flow range.

You say decent flow into the socks, but the flow in the sump is not to crazy, assuming this means slow.....but that does not make sense, the inflow must be relative to the flow in the sump or your return would go dry.

I have to change my socks every two days to prevent them from overflowing into the sump, then, they are 100% in effective.
Well, my return pump is 977gph (minus head pressure and whatnot, so likely around 5-600), and my tank volume plus sump is approx. 100g after displacement in a 90g display tank. That puts me around 5-6x turnover.

I definitely think I’m not getting *efficient* pull into the overflow though because it only has teeth at the top, and I often see particles flow up to it and then some go in, while most blow back away into the tank.

I just ended a fallow period, and only have one fish in the tank right now—a small melanurus wrasse—so there’s not a lot being put into the tank. Still, my socks don’t clog for a very, very long time, if ever. I only had them clog when I used 50 micron socks, and that took 4-5 days. Definitely an efficiency problem.

I think I just need to ditch the Marineland tank and invest in something with a better overflow design. For now, I’m going to get what I can with water changes, and keep using extremely fine socks. Hopefully, that will eventually make a difference.
 

HB AL

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Is it debri or air bubbles? Since you have no sand now I'm trying to understand exactly what is circulating in your water column in such high amounts that it is such an eyesore.
 

Woodneers

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What is it and where is it coming from? One trick i use form time to time after disturbing something is to use a maxi-jet 1200 with a smart water bottle filled with filter floss. 10 to 25 minutes later and my water is crystal clear again. It has proven to be a very good tool. ill catch a pic later if you would like or here is where i got the idea.
 

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What is it and where is it coming from? One trick i use form time to time after disturbing something is to use a maxi-jet 1200 with a smart water bottle filled with filter floss. 10 to 25 minutes later and my water is crystal clear again. It has proven to be a very good tool. ill catch a pic later if you would like or here is where i got the idea.

Agreed that more filtration of the water inside the tank is key.

I bought a big 5 micron filter sock and used a powerhead with tubing going inside sock, both in the main display.
This can clear a tank up overnight.
 

Saltyreef

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Can we see photos of your water level in conjunction with the overflow box?

Do your powerheads cause an eddy to form near the box?

Does your tank have adequate surface tension movement of the water?

How wide is your overflow?

Do you have room in the display and on your pump to increase the turnover rate?
 
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cshouston

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Is it debri or air bubbles? Since you have no sand now I'm trying to understand exactly what is circulating in your water column in such high amounts that it is such an eyesore.
I know you didn’t mean any offense, but I think I’m smart enough to tell the difference between debris and micro bubbles. There’s nothing emitting bubbles. It’s particulate matter, and now I’m pretty certain it’s being ejected by spaghetti worms in the rocks.
 
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cshouston

cshouston

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What is it and where is it coming from? One trick i use form time to time after disturbing something is to use a maxi-jet 1200 with a smart water bottle filled with filter floss. 10 to 25 minutes later and my water is crystal clear again. It has proven to be a very good tool. ill catch a pic later if you would like or here is where i got the idea.

This looks like a great idea. It’s like the magnum filter, but would probably work better. Especially with 5 micron socks like smsreef mentioned.
 
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cshouston

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Can we see photos of your water level in conjunction with the overflow box?

Do your powerheads cause an eddy to form near the box?

Does your tank have adequate surface tension movement of the water?

How wide is your overflow?

Do you have room in the display and on your pump to increase the turnover rate?
709E6C09-CC59-45EB-A4D5-BCEB2BFC2D18.jpeg

The water level is basically in the middle of the grille atop the overflow box.

There’s no eddy near the box. My flow is variable and moves around the tank.

I have a lot of surface agitation from the return line.

I can’t increase the flow because it’s an AC pump at full tilt. I’m planning to upgrade to a more powerful DC return pump that I can adjust.

I think I’m going to give the internal diy floss filter a try for a few days.
 

Saltyreef

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709E6C09-CC59-45EB-A4D5-BCEB2BFC2D18.jpeg

The water level is basically in the middle of the grille atop the overflow box.

There’s no eddy near the box. My flow is variable and moves around the tank.

I have a lot of surface agitation from the return line.

I can’t increase the flow because it’s an AC pump at full tilt. I’m planning to upgrade to a more powerful DC return pump that I can adjust.

I think I’m going to give the internal diy floss filter a try for a few days.
You can try a diy diatom filter too :) those kick butt. Esp when you run into dinos.
 

vetteguy53081

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200 micron filter sock has done it for me.
 

Mastiffsrule

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hey @cshouston

Sorry about the troubles. Definitely frustrating. If I may offer my observations and opinions.

Love the rockscape and tank looks great. I would sacrifice some water clarity if it is just a minor irritation. compared to having a vibrant healthy tank.

I am think out loud here, but maybe some of the stuff in the water is coming from inside the rock and not sand. Another words detris from rock burrowing creatures. Every so often I will see a puff come out from a hole in my rock.

The sand should only have contributed to the problem only so much for so long. Once all the gunk was gone the sand should have started help trap particles.

As all mentioned mechanical filtration is your best bet. I would not do a 100% water change. Unless you know 100% where this is coming from, most like it will just come back. Another option is like wood posted, rig up some type of use as needed water polisher. I have a home DE filter in the closet for my 180 that cost about 50$. There is also the magnum polishing method.

Good luck, tank looks great
 

Woodneers

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This looks like a great idea. It’s like the magnum filter, but would probably work better. Especially with 5 micron socks like smsreef mentioned.
Throw cheap pillow stuffing filter floss in there and call it a day. Let it run a day or two if you would like but it doesn’t take long at all to clear whatever is in the water column
 

Uncle99

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Well, my return pump is 977gph (minus head pressure and whatnot, so likely around 5-600), and my tank volume plus sump is approx. 100g after displacement in a 90g display tank. That puts me around 5-6x turnover.

I definitely think I’m not getting *efficient* pull into the overflow though because it only has teeth at the top, and I often see particles flow up to it and then some go in, while most blow back away into the tank.

I just ended a fallow period, and only have one fish in the tank right now—a small melanurus wrasse—so there’s not a lot being put into the tank. Still, my socks don’t clog for a very, very long time, if ever. I only had them clog when I used 50 micron socks, and that took 4-5 days. Definitely an efficiency problem.

I think I just need to ditch the Marineland tank and invest in something with a better overflow design. For now, I’m going to get what I can with water changes, and keep using extremely fine socks. Hopefully, that will eventually make a difference.
If stuff is going in the overflow and back out, that speaks to not moving enough water, or, that there is some type of back flow in the box.

It hard to see but it looks like your return comes from inside the box, anynchance

Have you physically measured that output from the return?

I can’t use socks that are less than 100 micron, or the water is just to slow.

once particulate gets through my grate, it goes down, no way it can come back.

Strange, I admit
 
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