PBT Flashing like crazy. Has been in QT for over 70 days. More below

ngoodermuth

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I don't think it could hurt, it's helped me out a few times. What are your thoughts @ngoodermuth?

I agree, it probably wouldn’t hurt... pretty mild and has multiple benefits, antimicrobial to prevent secondary infection, and also increases hemoglobin so the fish can better use the oxygen in the water.
 

joec

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agree - there is a fish safe version - just google it for aquaria - I used it on my discus aquarium - no problems.


Thanks for pointing that out, I'll order the Thomas lab version

For the record, I used the Merck version on four fish and there were no obvious issues.
 
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I'll pick up some Methylene Blue. It's about the only thing I don't have at this point, besides pharmaceutical CP. May as well finish the collection... lol

Sure do appreciate the help, all. He has calmed down quite a lot in the last two days, so we may have adequately addressed it. I'll keep you posted
 

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I'll pick up some Methylene Blue. It's about the only thing I don't have at this point, besides pharmaceutical CP. May as well finish the collection... lol

Sure do appreciate the help, all. He has calmed down quite a lot in the last two days, so we may have adequately addressed it. I'll keep you posted
Here's the instructions for giving him a bath
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/methylene-blue.257467/
 
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Flashing is gone... He looks happy. Think I'll leave them in hypo for a little while longer and slowly bring them out. If they still look good after a couple of weeks I'll return them to the DT.

Wonder if I should maintain the 75 empty and running as a ready hospital tank. I don't see any other large fish in my future, as the new tank is a Reefer 250. I expect that the 20's or 10's would be adequate to QT any stock desired for it. Would it be reasonable to convert it into a FOWLR in 6 mo's or so, or should I keep it available?
 

MnFish1

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Flashing is gone... He looks happy. Think I'll leave them in hypo for a little while longer and slowly bring them out. If they still look good after a couple of weeks I'll return them to the DT.

Wonder if I should maintain the 75 empty and running as a ready hospital tank. I don't see any other large fish in my future, as the new tank is a Reefer 250. I expect that the 20's or 10's would be adequate to QT any stock desired for it. Would it be reasonable to convert it into a FOWLR in 6 mo's or so, or should I keep it available?

First glad he's better. What do you think was causing it in the end?

Second - I dont understand your question maybe - but I would not tend to use a 75 gallon tank as a 'hospital tank' unless it was for really big fish. The reason - chemicals and salt, etc cost money. Each time you use the tank for a hospital' -the best practice would be to take it down an d sterilize it. Thus you're using a lot more salt and treatment drugs than you normally would.

I dont know why you wouldn't make it into a FOWLR if thats your eventual goal - again if I misunderstood your question - ignore this advice:)
 
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Nope, you were pretty much on point. Was basically asking if it would be irresponsible to not have it available for the tangs in the future if needed. I have a frag tank set up now, so no need to ever add anything without adequate at again... but bad stuff happens.
 
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As for what I think was causing it... I still suspect it was Prazi resistant flukes based upon his behavior. Every once in a while would catch the Chevron at the surface, as well. Everyone is acting normal now, so I'm hoping for the best. Again, will watch for a while prior to putting them back in DT
 

MnFish1

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Nope, you were pretty much on point. Was basically asking if it would be irresponsible to not have it available for the tangs in the future if needed. I have a frag tank set up now, so no need to ever add anything without adequate at again... but bad stuff happens.

Some may not like this - but I think a tang should do ok in a smaller QT tank. Hopefully it will not need it for 70 +days next time lol:).... I would use your 75 as a FOWLR if you want
 

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+1 I wouldn’t treat them with copper again unless you have to, but I would definitely have a nice long observation period after to be sure. 3 weeks minimum. Just my opinion of course.
I think he said he did 14 days of copper? Is that enough. In Jan we did 32 fats of copper in DT Fowler tank and not ich so we removed the copper. Then in April reoccurring Ich. Had to copper again as it was worse than the first time. Did another 35 days of copper at higher more consistent dose which is hard in DT tank but my fish are way to large to quarantine with them being 10-12 inches. Couldnthis still be ich for the OP and not just flukes? I’m no expert for sure but with my bad experiences I was just wondering. Thank you I’m just kind of following along.
 

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I think he said he did 14 days of copper? Is that enough. In Jan we did 32 fats of copper in DT Fowler tank and not ich so we removed the copper. Then in April reoccurring Ich. Had to copper again as it was worse than the first time. Did another 35 days of copper at higher more consistent dose which is hard in DT tank but my fish are way to large to quarantine with them being 10-12 inches. Couldnthis still be ich for the OP and not just flukes? I’m no expert for sure but with my bad experiences I was just wondering. Thank you I’m just kind of following along.

14 days of copper followed by a transfer to a new, disease free, Qt eliminates ich. If you don’t transfer you need 30 days. In this case the op did transfer so ich is unlikely.
 

ngoodermuth

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14 days of copper followed by a transfer to a new, disease free, Qt eliminates ich. If you don’t transfer you need 30 days. In this case the op did transfer so ich is unlikely.

+1, and even with 30 days keeping them in the same tank post-treatment has some risk. That’s why we “fallow” tanks for 76 days and not 30. The risk is minimal since *most* strains will have completed their life-cycle by then... but there could always be the odd-ball ones that outlast the 30-day treatment in the encysted stage.

For the best chance at eradicating, a transfer to second QT either way... is a good safeguard.
 

RtomKinMad

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14 days of copper followed by a transfer to a new, disease free, Qt eliminates ich. If you don’t transfer you need 30 days. In this case the op did transfer so ich is unlikely.
Cool! Thanks for the information, I get it now. I’ve never been able to do tank transfer so always did the full copper method. But very hard to copper in DT with sand and rocks. But thankfully 4ford and hotrocks helped me! I appreciate your answer just helps me too and maybe others who are following along! Thank you!
 

RtomKinMad

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+1, and even with 30 days keeping them in the same tank post-treatment has some risk. That’s why we “fallow” tanks for 76 days and not 30. The risk is minimal since *most* strains will have completed their life-cycle by then... but there could always be the odd-ball ones that outlast the 30-day treatment in the encysted stage.

For the best chance at eradicating, a transfer to second QT either way... is a good safeguard.
Good information. Thank you. I unfortunately could not quarantine or tank transfer my large fish in Fowler tank. First time we had ich on these fish. Some are 12+ years old and very large. We upgraded to a new 8’ tank from a 6’ and moved our Caribbean blue from a reef with ich management into this Fowler tank and also bought a new puffer. We are not sure which one gave us the ich but We made the mistake of not quarantining the either before joining them when we moved all the fish from 6-8’ tank. And the ich didn’t show up for 2 months and we had already sold the 180 tank. :( so we had to copper the 8’, 300 gal tank. But they seem fine and ich free now after two treatments. 4ford helped me a lot on PM. I still follow the disease threads because I always learn something! We are lucky to have a really awesome LFS.
Thank you for your reply! I appreciate your help too.
 

MnFish1

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14 days of copper followed by a transfer to a new, disease free, Qt eliminates ich. If you don’t transfer you need 30 days. In this case the op did transfer so ich is unlikely.

Lets assume that there is no CI in the display tank (for sure).
Lets assume you treat with copper for 14 days at the correct level.
What is the reason you dont just put the fish in the display tank immediately?

Aren't the answers - 1. some people treat with another medication after copper. 2. 2 week observation after copper is because 2 weeks sometimes fails? There are articles suggesting that CI requires AT LEAST 2 weeks of copper. The protocol being used here is not standard - has failed once already with velvet (a higher level of copper is used now).

The point is not to criticize the protocol - the point is - I think @RtomKinMad asked a valid question. We cant be sure that a the person with the CI in the tank treated 'to short a time' for whatever strain of CI was in their tank. I think there is a lot we dont know about these parasites.
 

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Observation is always a good idea post treatment in case another disease is present or the treatment failed because of an unusual strain of the disease or human error like cross contamination.
 

ngoodermuth

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Observation is always a good idea post treatment in case another disease is present or the treatment failed because of an unusual strain of the disease or human error like cross contamination.

+1, also... secondary infection is a good thing to watch for post-treatment as well.
 

MnFish1

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+1, also... secondary infection is a good thing to watch for post-treatment as well.

Again - This makes sense - I replied in answer to the question 'could the protocol have failed' and his fish were 'reinfected'. Sorry I wasnt very clear - I wasn't suggesting anyone put fish in the display - I was trying to illustrate that people 'don't do it' because QT protocols can fail.
 

RtomKinMad

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Thank you for answering my question everyone. I didn’t follow the protocols because of my size of fish. So I’m sure for me it was the inappropriate method of using copper that made mine fail. Wish I had a better choice. This is such a good group of people helping each other. Hope OPs fish are better today.
 
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