PBT in QT treat or not , what should I do?

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gettergejetter

gettergejetter

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Good luck.

If the PBT isn’t showing any signs of infection and you’re worried about the stress level, you can dose the peroxide daily in a single tank (I think I sent you the link) instead of transferring.

It’s up to you and your risk tolerance.
Thank you. Yes unless I see a major problem I'll stay committed to TTM. He was swimming in circles yesterday after the second transfer but looks better today. I also spotted him nibbling on some nori so I guess he's ok at the moment :)
 
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gettergejetter

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If you have ich in your tank - the PBT will tell the tale whether the current inhabitants show ich or not. Treating it with copper will at least improve your odds.
Hi, thx for your input. I decided to go with Hybrid TTM. At least I'll have done what I can for the PBT.

Indeed if the DT has ich I will probably get it confirmed through the PBT. Fingers crossed that it's not the case.
 
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Here's an update on how the PBT is doing and a question about how I should proceed.

------------------------------------

UPDATE

The fish handled the Hybrid TTM without any negative effects worth mentioning :) . So this step is over and he's still happily swimming and eating in his QT.

He is now in QT since 5 weeks.

-------------------------------------

Question

I planed to do a first round of Praziquantel today but at the same time the fish looks very healthy and I can't see any signs of diseases.

So I'm facing 3 choices right now:

1. Do the 2 rounds of Prazi anyway
2. Freshwater dip and do Prazi only if I spot something after FWD. Else go in DT today.
3. Go in DT

Would option 2 be a good alternative to option 1 in order to omit unnecessary treatment? Or would it be more stressful for the fish than option 1?
 
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gettergejetter

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1. round of Prazi went in. The product I have (Tremazol) says 6 hours and then 80% water change. This is what I'll do now.

Did it only because I have the feeling that the PBT is breathing a little heavily but I'm maybe also worried for nothing.

If I wouldn't have noticed this he would be in the DT now.
 

Saltyanimals

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1. round of Prazi went in. The product I have (Tremazol) says 6 hours and then 80% water change. This is what I'll do now.

Did it only because I have the feeling that the PBT is breathing a little heavily but I'm maybe also worried for nothing.

If I wouldn't have noticed this he would be in the DT now.


I'm following this thread and sounds very much similar to what I went through.

I think you're doing the right thing with the PBT. I started the whole H2O2 thing as well and so far so good on all my fish that I treated before going into my QT which is currently not on meds except for GC (copper later). I do want to focus on your DT dilemma for a moment.

One of your questions is basically what's the point in treating one fish going into a tank of other fish that may or may not have diseases already in DT. Some folks will have opinions and that's why we're all here to discuss. Have you considered the black mollie test? I ran my tank fallow after a full tank wipeout, but suspected I ruined my own fallow period (different story). So I question if I should even add QT'ed fish into a potentially dirty tank. Well.. I transitioned 3 mollies to salt. Only one lasted more than a couple days, but it's been in my DT alone for over 2 weeks. Had a discoloration that I thought was brook, but I let it run its course and cleared up on its own. Which suggest it was probably something else and most importantly... fallow seems successful if I put trust in the mollie test. It may not be 100%, but does give a different vector and enough for me to leans towards my DT is ready. I'm about to pull the manny from QT to DT since it doesn't do copper well..before copper power goes into QT. The mollie test gave me just enough comfort to know that I can at least remove the manny from the equation and start copper on the rest of the fish.


Something to think about...
 
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I'm following this thread and sounds very much similar to what I went through.

I think you're doing the right thing with the PBT. I started the whole H2O2 thing as well and so far so good on all my fish that I treated before going into my QT which is currently not on meds except for GC (copper later). I do want to focus on your DT dilemma for a moment.

One of your questions is basically what's the point in treating one fish going into a tank of other fish that may or may not have diseases already in DT. Some folks will have opinions and that's why we're all here to discuss. Have you considered the black mollie test? I ran my tank fallow after a full tank wipeout, but suspected I ruined my own fallow period (different story). So I question if I should even add QT'ed fish into a potentially dirty tank. Well.. I transitioned 3 mollies to salt. Only one lasted more than a couple days, but it's been in my DT alone for over 2 weeks. Had a discoloration that I thought was brook, but I let it run its course and cleared up on its own. Which suggest it was probably something else and most importantly... fallow seems successful if I put trust in the mollie test. It may not be 100%, but does give a different vector and enough for me to leans towards my DT is ready. I'm about to pull the manny from QT to DT since it doesn't do copper well..before copper power goes into QT. The mollie test gave me just enough comfort to know that I can at least remove the manny from the equation and start copper on the rest of the fish.


Something to think about...
Hey, thank you for sharing your story.

Yes I considered doing the Mollie test but I don't really want to add yet another fish to the DT (I know sounds a little bit silly considering the risk I'm taking by not doing it). If I could catch it after the test and give it away I would probably do it but I don't want to chase a fish around the DT. I did this once and it didn't end well. I guess I'll have to think about it again ;-) And to be honest I'm starting to get impatient to finally add the PBT to DT. This whole process takes quiet a bit of effort (as you know :) ) and I want it to be over now.

I started another thread hoping to learn other methods than the Mollie test and the Microbiome test for knowing if a disease is present in a healthy looking tank but it doesn't look like :-(

If I understand correctly you're still in the process of adding fish back to your DT after the fallow period. I hope everything ends good (as good as it can be after a wipeout) for you as well.
 
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Saltyanimals

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Update

No issues with Praziquantel bath yesterday. PBT still eating like a pro.

That’s great! Hope things go well for you as well. Now imagine the next fish that’s you’ll add. LOL. I’m probably 2 weeks away from adding QT fish into the DT aside from the manny, but thinking about what’s next.

Unfortunately I think QT is in my future for all additions. After this fiasco, I don’t want to do ever have to vacate DT and go fallow ever again. Good luck !
 

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That’s great! Hope things go well for you as well. Now imagine the next fish that’s you’ll add. LOL. I’m probably 2 weeks away from adding QT fish into the DT aside from the manny, but thinking about what’s next.

Unfortunately I think QT is in my future for all additions. After this fiasco, I don’t want to do ever have to vacate DT and go fallow ever again. Good luck !

I just just thought about a part of your reply. Re: not wanting to catch and remove the mollie after the test. This is true if you hate the look of it amongst your other fish, but personally for me it’ll live out its life in the DT along with the other fish as a canary fish. It’s dark back and already hard for me to find in my tank today, but something I plan to look for on a regular basis to see if it ever has a disease. Theory is it should show any sickness first serving as an early indicator in the tank. Just a thought. For me I’m planning to transition 2-3 more and let them live in DT just in case one happens to be Super-Mollie and resistant to bullets and marine disease.
 
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That’s great! Hope things go well for you as well. Now imagine the next fish that’s you’ll add. LOL. I’m probably 2 weeks away from adding QT fish into the DT aside from the manny, but thinking about what’s next.

Unfortunately I think QT is in my future for all additions. After this fiasco, I don’t want to do ever have to vacate DT and go fallow ever again. Good luck !
Yep, you're right if another fish needs to go in, the hustle will start all over again. I'm not planing to add any other fish after the PBT except a dwarf moray eel. As far as I know eels don't have the problem with diseases because of their thick slime coat so it will go directly in DT. But yeah we know how it works, you're at the LFS just for watching and boom you're driving home with a fish you didn't plan to buy :)

But let's say the worst case scenario happens and I have a wipeout or the best case scenario happens and I'm able to start a new tank one day, then I'll definitely also do QT from the get go for sure!!!!!!!!!!! :) .

Will definitely rethink about the mollie. The back of my tank is also dark. You said you left the mollie a little over 2 weeks in DT without a sign of diseases. Is this the recommended observation period for the mollie?
 
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Saltyanimals

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I’ve read 2-4 weeks. I left mine in a small acclimation box tucked away in a corner for over a week initially. Eventually decided the test is probably for effective if I let it roam free to catch any and all disease through out the tank. Showed brook like areas after a week which freaked me out thinking my fallow failed, but I let it run its course for a couple more days and it went away which suggest some bacterial or other non disease damage. So far it’s been there almost 4 weeks and solid black so really hard to find. Will see how they deal with the larger fish in the tank, but great utilitarian fish to always have in a tank IMHO.

i plan to use the mollies in an anthias observation QT tank since they don’t deal with copper well after this batch of fish goes in.
 

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Hi everyone,

so here is another question in the net about powder blues in qt and possible diseases. I've probably read all of them but I would like to have you guys opinion on my personal case.

I have a Powder Blue Tang in QT since exactly 3 weeks now and it is eating very well since the first day. He eats green and red nori and frozen brine and mysis very quickly when I put it in and I think he's getting fatter each day :) . He's also very active and swims around all the time. He's about 3.5 inches long so not a very small one.

When I bought him I looked at him for about 40 minutes at the store and he looked healthy to me, except for one place on his side which seemed to be a little bit lighter than the rest and looked like it was a little swollen but it was barely visible so I figured at that time it must be fine (he still has it without noticable changes). Also the store owner told me he had him since 3 weeks which made me confident that it is one of the healthier specimens around.

Now since he's in QT I noticed him scratching on surfaces, but very rarely which made me unsure if he has some disease or if it's normal behaviour. Sometimes I don't see him scratching for hours and then he does it a few times in a row (I'm able to observe a lot because he's in my office).

Yesterday I looked at him very closely and think I saw a very very very small dot on one of his fins and the alarm went off. I couldn't see if the dot is white or an other color because it is so small.

I do have some Tremazol (praziquantel) and JBL Oodinol (Copper sulfate pentahydrate + methylthioninium chloride) on hand to start treatment but I'm very hesitant.

Tremazol seems to be a good product but I'm not sure with the Oodinol, I can't find any good information about it and I can't get any Cupramine or Copper Safe in Switzerland so this is what I have to work with.

There are a few factors making me hesitant:

- I'm not sure if he really has something
- I'm not sure if I should start with Praziquantel or Copper
- I'm afraid of using copper again because last time I treated fish almost all of them died. The story here is that I had a major outbreak (I think it was velvet but not sure) in the DT after a temperature swing during summer and I had to remove all fish (about 15 fish) in to a 25 gallon tank which stressed them even more and almost no one did it through the QT. Only two Chromis barely survived. After that I've gone fallow for the recommended time before adding the Chromis and new fish back in.
- I did the same error twice (because I was lazy) by not QT'ing all my new fish. So now I have 15 fish again in my DT and none of them has gone through QT. Also never noticed anything on them but I know it could be there.

So what in your opinion should I do? I want to keep the PBT for sure and at the same time minimise the risk of infecting the fish in DT if there is nothing. Or am I wasting my time by trying to treat the PBT because there could be something in the DT anyway? Should I further observe the PBT before doing something? Should I put him in and try to control the disease if there is any? There are so many variables and I'm holding these meds in my hands every day without overcoming myself to use them. I don't really have a problem with the praziquantel (almost put it in today) but more with the copper. Also if the small dot on his fin is ich I should probably start with copper anyway but I figured that the lighter surface on his side could maybe also be flukes?

So as you can see I'm quiet confused about how to proceed, any help would be greatly appreciated :)

The PBT will be the last fish going in so I don't want to ruin everything with him and do all I can to have a good ending with him.

p.S: sorry for my english it's not my native language :)
Don't use both medications simultaneously. Build up copper concentration to therapeutic level incrementally and discontinue if fish are distressed.
 
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UPDATE

It's done :)

I was a little busy the last few days and didn't find time to post but the short story is: the PBT is in the DT!!

The long story is that I did the second Prazi round last Thursday, so 6 days after the first one. The notice on Tremazol says 7 days but after reading a few other threads about praziquantel and flukes I figured that 6 days should be fine. So I did the 6 hours bath and then transferred him into my second QT tank with fresh saltwater instead of a water change. He stayed there for a couple hours and then I decided to put him in DT. I did not acclimate him to DT because temp and salinity were the same. The PBT and also all the other fish were a little stressed at the beginning but it settled after a day or so. After adding the PBT the other fish started chasing each other. I never observed this behaviour before when adding a new fish. I didn't do the mollie test at the end, I felt like I did enough and just took the risk that something could be in DT. But the stars alignment looked good since I never saw anything bad in DT.

So he's now in DT for 4 full days and everything looks fine. He eats (also a lot of picking on the rocks), no stress and most importantly no signs of any diseases :) and everybody is happy.

I'll continue to observe him and the other fish but I'm confident that everything will be fine. Very happy at the moment that I've gone through the whole QT process with the PBT.

So if everything stays as it is this will probably be my last update.

Many thanks to all of you who helped me during this process. Really enjoyed the exchange. This forum is great! Since I don't know anybody else with a reef tank in my entourage it helps a lot to talk to other reefers. Making the right choices is not always easy in this hobby and being able to talk to other people who understand what is going on gives one a sense of not being alone :)

20210423_132632 (1).jpg 20210423_132527.jpg
 
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Saltyanimals

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Looks great and good luck. Do update if things change in your tank. The recent school of thought is to avoid the PBT all together due to the risk, but it can be successful and worth it to some people to keep this fish in their tank.
 

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Yes their could be ammonia in the water. Fish are constantly excreting urea/uric acid/ammonia from their gills. Depends on the species which type it can be. It all breaks down. They do this to keep an osmotic balance at the same time get waste out of their body.
 
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