pH change

[Nasabeau]

So, When I started my tank the pH was around 8.1 and held that way pretty consistently. I recently added my third fish and noticed today, three days later, my pH has dropped to 7.9. my KH is 12, so I don't want to add a buffer, what should I do to raise the pH back to the 8.1-8.2 range? check build thread for detailed info on setup, but right now I'm running a 75 gallon tank with canister filter and no skimmer yet

 

[HuduVudu]

So, When I started my tank the pH was around 8.1 and held that way pretty consistently. I recently added my third fish and noticed today, three days later, my pH has dropped to 7.9. my KH is 12, so I don't want to add a buffer, what should I do to raise the pH back to the 8.1-8.2 range? check build thread for detailed info on setup, but right now I'm running a 75 gallon tank with canister filter and no skimmer yet

Looks like the top of your tank is covered. I would remove that at least until you can get your skimmer, but for me I would remove it indefinitely, that's just me.

You added a CO2/fish waste producer to your tank, so that is probably the cause.

Also as a quick sanity check especially before it gets really cold. Open a window near your tank and leave it open for a couple hours and see how that plays on your PH.

The skimmer will definitely add more options for when you finally get the actual cause nailed down.

 

[SPR1968]

Don’t worry about it your fine as you are, it does vary slightly and you also have test error margins but your ok at those levels

 

[Nasabeau]

Looks like the top of your tank is covered. I would remove that at least until you can get your skimmer, but for me I would remove it indefinitely, that's just me.

You added a CO2/fish waste producer to your tank, so that is probably the cause.

Also as a quick sanity check especially before it gets really cold. Open a window near your tank and leave it open for a couple hours and see how that plays on your PH.

The skimmer will definitely add more options for when you finally get the actual cause nailed down.

yes, it does have a glass top, I dripped holes in the little plastic bit at the back to allow gas exchange but I took those off entirely to see how that changes things. I would open the window, but its about 60F and raining right now. I have such heartburn leaving the tank open like this, since the coral beauty is a known jumper (actually jumped out of the box when we were acclimatizing, luckily into the aquarium) but hopefully this will give me an idea of whether or not gas exchange is the problem

 

[Nasabeau]

Don’t worry about it your fine as you are, it does vary slightly and you also have test error margins but your ok at those levels

While I get that attitude, that is lower than the coral beauty angelfish likes, (granted slightly) and over three days that's kind of a fast change for this aquarium, I'd rather be concerned and have it not matter than to ignore it and have it get worse. mainly I'm worried because if it does get worse, I don't really have an easy out with adding a buffer, since my KH is already at max. I do appreciate the sentiment though, and I am not too worried, its more a matter of wanting to diagnose the problem before it gets worse kind of thing

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

While I get that attitude, that is lower than the coral beauty angelfish likes, (granted slightly) and over three days that's kind of a fast change for this aquarium,

Just curious, how do you know what pH it prefers?

 

[Nasabeau]

Just curious, how do you know what pH it prefers?

I suppose I don't know what pH my specific fish prefers (I asked but he won't tell me), it is however what the internet says his species tends to prefer XD

Edit: to clarify, the internet says the preferred pH of the CBA is about 8.1 to 8.4, so that's what I kinda wanted to keep it between. I figured 8.1 is a nice overlap between what the clownfish are supposed to be comfortable in and what the CBA is supposed to be comfortable in. of course it is the internet so grains of salt all around

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I suppose I don't know what pH my specific fish prefers (I asked but he won't tell me), it is however what the internet says his species tends to prefer XD

Edit: to clarify, the internet says the preferred pH of the CBA is about 8.1 to 8.4, so that's what I kinda wanted to keep it between. I figured 8.1 is a nice overlap between what the clownfish are supposed to be comfortable in and what the CBA is supposed to be comfortable in. of course it is the internet so grains of salt all around

IMO, there is no reason to believe such claims for any fish. It's a very difficult thing to actually study. To find what it prefers involves somehow linking spaces of different pH and letting them select where they want to be. I have never seen that done for fish. I have seen temperature studies like that, but not pH.

Studies of health or growth effects of pH on fish mostly find no effect, or are studying effects outside the pH range we normally encounter in reef tanks. I doubt any such study was ever done on your particular species.

 

[Nasabeau]

IMO, there is no reason to believe such claims for any fish. It's a very difficult thing to actually study. Real studies of pH effects on fish generally find no effect, or are studying effects outside the pH range we normally encounter in reef tanks.

Makes sense. so When should I start to be concerned?

 

[ScottB]

I think if you weight the community input by the number of reefing years possesed, you will find that experienced folks don't worry about pH if it is above 7.8 at all.

Unless you are trying to accelerate acropora growth; maybe then the preference level climbs above 8.0.

 

[Nasabeau]

I think if you weight the community input by the number of reefing years possesed, you will find that experienced folks don't worry about pH if it is above 7.8 at all.

Unless you are trying to accelerate acropora growth; maybe then the preference level climbs above 8.0.

okay. I will keep that in mind. seeing the change that quick though still worries me a tad. gonna check in a few minutes to see what the pH is with the top off

 

[Philly Reefer]

Do you have a ph monitor?

 

[Nasabeau]

Do you have a ph monitor?

I do not, Those are really expensive. I use the API high range test kit

 

[Flux Capacitor]

Do you check the PH at the same time everyday? It will fluctuate during the day rising while the lights are on over the tank, and falling when the lights are off at night. So if you test at different times it’s gonna be a different answer.

Here is a graph of my tank to illustrate it. My PH doesn’t concern me one but as long as it’s above 7.8. You can see where it is lower on the first few days of the graph. We had family stay over those days, and due to the increase co2 in the house it causes it to be lower. After they left you can see it gets higher.

 

[Philly Reefer]

I do not, Those are really expensive. I use the API high range test kit

So depending on when you test your pH, it will be different. Unless you use additives, etc
Here is a sample of my tank pH

As you can see, my pH can go as high as 8.24.

0.2 swings is normal. And I have my skimmer drawing outside air.

 

[Nasabeau]

okay, that may be it. I usually test around noon. I get a break from classes so I relax for a bit and test both my tanks (only one is salt water, and its the one I am referring to). I just tested again with the lid off for two hours and saw no change, so I'm not sure CO2 is the issue, but I suppose it still could be... do I just continue to monitor it and not change anything for now? I've been skimmer shopping since my nitrate is kind of hard to control anyway...

 

[Flux Capacitor]

Yea I would continue to just monitor. Like I said I wouldn’t worry about the ph at all unless it gets below 7.8. It could take a day or two before the kids being off help. How’s your surface agitation? Mine is constantly rolling to allow for a good gas exchange.

 

[Nasabeau]

Yea I would continue to just monitor. Like I said I wouldn’t worry about the ph at all unless it gets below 7.8. It could take a day or two before the kids being off help. How’s your surface agitation? Mine is constantly rolling to allow for a good gas exchange.

I have one powerhead aimed towards the surface and the filter return is basically on the surface so I've got a lot of agitation.

 

[ScottB]

Don't we think it has more to do with the concentration of CO2 in the room? If there is high CO2 in the room, then gas exchange (via skimmer, turbulence, whatever) is kinda counterproductive.

Most of us run a skimmer and unless you go fish lite, you probably will also. Can you run an airline outside to feed the future skimmer? If you can do that, you are doing more to raise pH than most. IMO.

 

[Nasabeau]

Don't we think it has more to do with the concentration of CO2 in the room? If there is high CO2 in the room, then gas exchange (via skimmer, turbulence, whatever) is kinda counterproductive.

Most of us run a skimmer and unless you go fish lite, you probably will also. Can you run an airline outside to feed the future skimmer? If you can do that, you are doing more to raise pH than most. IMO.

yes. my tank is near a window air conditioner that I can feed the line out of to the outside, and that was my plan