Ph is consistently (too?) high, but need to stabilize Alkalinity

[anthonymckay]

Anyone have the issue of Ph being too high? I frequently read posts from people trying to raise their Ph, but my issue is the opposite. My Ph is consistently out of range of my Hanna checker and just flashes 8.6 usually, so no idea how high it actually is. Though this week I did get one 8.5 reading, so I’m guessing it’s maybe around 8.7 or so? My Alk is dropping about 0.2 dKH per day, so I’ve been exploring some dosing solutions to keep it stable without increasing Ph even more. Looking for some advise on how I can lower Ph, while stabilizing my Alkalinity.

 

[The Farmer]

How big is your tank? What type of coral are you keeping?

 

[rtparty]

Sodium bicarbonate

 

[YOYOYOReefer]

rt party is wrong sodium bicarbonate wil raise your ph

sodium bisulfate can lower your ph

 

[gbroadbridge]

Anyone have the issue of Ph being too high? I frequently read posts from people trying to raise their Ph, but my issue is the opposite. My Ph is consistently out of range of my Hanna checker and just flashes 8.6 usually, so no idea how high it actually is. Though this week I did get one 8.5 reading, so I’m guessing it’s maybe around 8.7 or so? My Alk is dropping about 0.2 dKH per day, so I’ve been exploring some dosing solutions to keep it stable without increasing Ph even more. Looking for some advise on how I can lower Ph, while stabilizing my Alkalinity.

It is most likely a measurement error.

Did you do a 2 point calibration with fresh calibration buffers?

 

[rtparty]

rt party is wrong sodium bicarbonate wil raise your ph

sodium bisulfate can lower your ph

Soda ash aka sodium carbonate will raise pH. Sodium Bicarbonate does not.

 

[anthonymckay]

How big is your tank? What type of coral are you keeping?

Red Sea Reefer 300XL (65 display, 15sump, 80 total). Right now mostly just a handful of Zoas, LPS.

It is most likely a measurement error.

Did you do a 2 point calibration with fresh calibration buffers?

This isn't a probe, this is with the Hanna checker + reagent. I've verified the high reading against an Red Sea pH test.

 

[minus9]

Sodium bicarbonate will not raise your pH like soda ash does. I used to dose soda ash during the night and bicarbonate during the day in my 22g sps nano, which kept my pH pretty even throughout the day/night cycle. They are both buffers, but soda ash will have a slight temporary increase immediately after dosing, but then it should drop down again, but as the overall buffer increases, so does pH as O2 levels start to increase from photosynthesis. (cliff notes version)

 

[gbroadbridge]

This isn't a probe, this is with the Hanna checker + reagent. I've verified the high reading against an Red Sea Ph test.

Dye based tests are quite unreliable, and not very accurate even with fresh reagents.

Try fresh reagent, or better still test using a calibrated probe.

If pH is still measuring high (unlikely) you need to increase aeration which would reduce the deficiency of co2 in the tank By rqualising with normal co2 in the air.

 

[The Farmer]

How long has it been running for?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Anyone have the issue of Ph being too high? I frequently read posts from people trying to raise their Ph, but my issue is the opposite. My Ph is consistently out of range of my Hanna checker and just flashes 8.6 usually, so no idea how high it actually is. Though this week I did get one 8.5 reading, so I’m guessing it’s maybe around 8.7 or so? My Alk is dropping about 0.2 dKH per day, so I’ve been exploring some dosing solutions to keep it stable without increasing Ph even more. Looking for some advise on how I can lower Ph, while stabilizing my Alkalinity.

I do not believe that pH is accurate.

pH above 8,5 in the absence of dosing a lot of very high alk additives is always (or nearly always) test error.

DO not try to lower the pH without verifying the pH.

In short, pH is NEVER too high without dosing high pH alk additives.

When it is too high, more aeration always works.

 

[lone reefer]

I have the same issue with ph at 8.6 on the Hanna checker. I even have a second Hanna ph checker just to be sure and I think it may be an issue with the reagents. I have 3 bottles of reagent 2 of them give me readings of 8.6 and then another older bottle gives me a reading of 8.4? All bottles of reagent are at least 2-3 months old. I’ve had this issue with the reagents in the past. I just ordered a new bottle that should be here tomorrow, so we’ll see what how that one reads. I also tested a fresh batch of mixed saltwater using reef crystals and rodi water and it gives me a reading of 8.5. Hopefully I’ll find out tomorrow if it’s just an issue with the reagents. My other thought was that it could be the high alk that comes with reef crystals, I’ve been using it for about 9 years but never really started keeping close track of the ph till recently. Im unsure of the consistency with RC as sometimes I get a ph right at 8.3 but like I said recently it was 8.5 24 hours after mixing. Im going to try switching to tropic Marin pro for the lower alk and see if that has an effect on the ph. My corals seem to like alk between 8-9 and more so on the low side, closer to 8. I do 20-30% water changes weekly and the alk always jumps to about 9.6 with the reef crystals which doesn’t give me the stability I’m looking for.

 

[lone reefer]

Anyone have the issue of Ph being too high? I frequently read posts from people trying to raise their Ph, but my issue is the opposite. My Ph is consistently out of range of my Hanna checker and just flashes 8.6 usually, so no idea how high it actually is. Though this week I did get one 8.5 reading, so I’m guessing it’s maybe around 8.7 or so? My Alk is dropping about 0.2 dKH per day, so I’ve been exploring some dosing solutions to keep it stable without increasing Ph even more. Looking for some advise on how I can lower Ph, while stabilizing my Alkalinity.

The issue is likely the amount of reagent coming out of the bottle. I have 2 Hanna ph checkers and 3 bottles of reagents. I’ve had this same issue with high ph readings and literally just now did multiple test between 2 tanks, both checkers and 3 bottles of reagents. I finally got consistent readings by controlling how hard I squeeze the bottle while squeezing the reagent into the vial. Try to squeeze as lightly as possible with bottle vertical, squeeze slowly and just hard enough to barely get the drops out. My ph went from 8.6 down to 8 just based on how hard I squeezed the bottle!

 

[The Farmer]

I also get a 8.6 reading on my Hanna checker but I just let it go, from the look of my corals and the growth they seem to be doing fine. It didn’t really concern me of having high ph

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I also get a 8.6 reading on my Hanna checker but I just let it go, from the look of my corals and the growth they seem to be doing fine. It didn’t really concern me of having high ph

You probably don't have high pH, just a faulty device.

 

[lone reefer]

You probably don't have high pH, just a faulty device.

Probably not a faulty device, just an inconsistent amount of reagent. If the tip of the bottle of reagent is even slightly smaller/larger or you squeeze too hard or too soft it creates the inconsistency. I have 2 Hanna alk and ph checkers because I wasn’t trusting them. Turns out the colorimeters are pretty consistent and accurate, it’s the reagents and the amounts that aren’t.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thanks. I was lumping the whole procedure under faulty device, but thanks for clarifying.

 

[anthonymckay]

I ordered another bottle of reagent, and tested with it tonight along with the old bottle. New bottle read 8.3, old bottle told me 8.5. I've been looking into a controller and some probes as well as a doser, but I'm still trying ot decide what route to go with that. I've been leaning heavily towards going full GHL, just hate that the lead time is so long for the ion-director.

 

[lone reefer]

I ordered another bottle of reagent, and tested with it tonight along with the old bottle. New bottle read 8.3, old bottle told me 8.5. I've been looking into a controller and some probes as well as a doser, but I'm still trying ot decide what route to go with that. I've been leaning heavily towards going full GHL, just hate that the lead time is so long for the ion-director.

I have an apex and a trident, I do not trust any probe in existence for any length of time except for immediately after being calibrated. It doesn’t matter the brand, the build up of minerals will throw off any probe. You might get lucky with one that might be consistent for a bit but they will need to be regularly calibrated and could still give false readings. I was in horticulture for many years and had the same issue with ph meters and probes. I just stopped using them and used a liquid reagent and color chart. Plants are more forgiving than corals but ph is still very crucial. I like the automation of the apex but the trident also needs regular calibration and I wouldn’t trust it to control my dosing, I use it to look for swings and trends then still do manual testing to be sure. The Hanna ph checker is probably the best for ph. Did you try squeezing the older bottle of reagent more gently? It’s most likely not the meter or the reagent that’s bad it’s the actual bottle that stores the reagent and how much reagent you are squeezing into the vial. You can’t tell by looking at the amount but just a tiny bit more or less will give different results.

 

[fryman]

The hanna ph calorimeter (HI780) sucks. There are lots of reports with this problem. The checker or reagents are unreliable, often giving out of range measurements but even when in range I do not trust the accuracy of this particular instrument.

My advice is use a ph probe instead (pinpoint or mikwaukee or hanna make them) and check calibration periodically.