Phoenix 14K 250W DE vs 20K 250DE

[cwk84]

Looks like they are really bright! I thought the unique thing with reef brites is that they have a really strong light spill so they don’t get overpowered by strong halide bulbs.

 

[A. grandis]

In tha case I would keep the 14Ks. You will get the colors you want. The corals WILL develop the pigments with that photoperiod. Just takes some time. Increase the photoperiod very slowly if you wish and there will be no problems. I have a system that had only T5s for 11+years and with the halides the colors are coming slowly and amazingly! If your corals are genericaly colored the pigments they have/can produce will come with time. In the long run you will love your tank and the corals will love you for that!! You can tell they are healthy and that's when they produce those pigments faster too. Relax and enjoy!
Any pics of your system, please?

 

[Bpb]

I’d keep the 14k. The color will get there it’ll just take time. But if you really just like the blue ambience, Hamilton makes a 20k DE bulbs spec’d for the ballast you’re running.

Here are some of mine from this week under only Hamilton 14k, which should look very similar to the Phoenix. No other supplements

Genetics will play a huge role. If you’ve got a coral that lacks the genetic instructions to manufacture certain pigments under certain conditions, no lights will change that. But if you keep things stable and in some ideal ranges and ratios, there are no corals I can feasibly think of that won’t color up under Phoenix bulbs.

 

[cwk84]

I’d keep the 14k. The color will get there it’ll just take time. But if you really just like the blue ambience, Hamilton makes a 20k DE bulbs spec’d for the ballast you’re running.

Here are some of mine from this week under only Hamilton 14k, which should look very similar to the Phoenix. No other supplements

Genetics will play a huge role. If you’ve got a coral that lacks the genetic instructions to manufacture certain pigments under certain conditions, no lights will change that. But if you keep things stable and in some ideal ranges and ratios, there are no corals I can feasibly think of that won’t color up under Phoenix bulbs.

Wow just wow. When I take pictures of my tank it just looks white. I don’t understand why your guys’ 14k bulbs look so blue compared to mine?! Do they get bluer once they burn in?

In tha case I would keep the 14Ks. You will get the colors you want. The corals WILL develop the pigments with that photoperiod. Just takes some time. Increase the photoperiod very slowly if you wish and there will be no problems. I have a system that had only T5s for 11+years and with the halides the colors are coming slowly and amazingly! If your corals are genericaly colored the pigments they have/can produce will come with time. In the long run you will love your tank and the corals will love you for that!! You can tell they are healthy and that's when they produce those pigments faster too. Relax and enjoy!
Any pics of your system, please?

I just switched from a 40 gallon without sump to a 75 gallon with sump setup. My tank is not fully stocked yet. I can post some pictures tomorrow so you get an idea of how white they look compared to the pictures here in the thread. Also you’ll see how beat up my corals are from the bad conditions of my old tank ( 1 tank crash, flat worm infestation) So I understand that they aren’t as colorful as they should be.

 

[A. grandis]

Very nice pictures, Bpb!!!
Thanks for sharing! They look great!

cwk84: There are many reasons why your tank is still adapting to the changes and healing from all that stress. It's going to be great in the long run. Just let it be and try not to put your hands in the water for now. Post the pics when you can.

 

[cwk84]

Very nice pictures, Bpb!!!
Thanks for sharing! They look great!

cwk84: There are many reasons why your tank is still adapting to the changes and healing from all that stress. It's going to be great in the long run. Just let it be and try not to put your hands in the water for now. Post the pics when you can.

I've done some more research and I've read that for some the Radiums are actually less blue then the 14k Phoenix. I'm suspecting that it has something to do with the type of ballast. Some ballasts underdrive the bulbs making them appear bluer.

 

[Bpb]

Wow just wow. When I take pictures of my tank it just looks white. I don’t understand why your guys’ 14k bulbs look so blue compared to mine?! Do they get bluer once they burn in?



I just switched from a 40 gallon without sump to a 75 gallon with sump setup. My tank is not fully stocked yet. I can post some pictures tomorrow so you get an idea of how white they look compared to the pictures here in the thread. Also you’ll see how beat up my corals are from the bad conditions of my old tank ( 1 tank crash, flat worm infestation) So I understand that they aren’t as colorful as they should be.

Changes in light can take some real time to register color shifts. I know when I switched from t5 to MH there was some noticeable and gradual color shifting of several pieces. Some better some worse. And they’re still shifting. I only switched to MH 5 months ago so I’m honestly still in the infancy of what I can expect changes to be like.

My pictures as well as JDA can be misleading on overall aesthetic. A top down image will show corals largely surrounded by coraline covered rock which will really give a bluer deeper aesthetic than look at the tank from across the room.

My bulbs are about 9 months old and have color shifted. They’re closer to 10-12k in appearance now. I know Phoenix bulbs have a reputation for being very color and output stable, but it’s a given that as bulbs age, the red and orange phosphors will increase their output, and the blue/violet will decrease. This is universal. They’ll get whiter and warmer in appearance as they age. How severe that is will depend on the bulb. But none will get bluer.

 

[cwk84]

Could you post a picture of the whole tank with the halides on?

 

[Bpb]

Could you post a picture of the whole tank with the halides on?

 

[cwk84]

Yea my bulbs look similar. They have a white/green tint that washes out some colors. I'd like it to be more of a cool ocean-like ice blue. For instance, the bubble coral looks very dark. If you were to put it under LEDs it would pop like crazy. I understand that this is just an illusion but I'd still like to see that so I think I'm going to go for supplemental LED bars.

 

[Bpb]

Yea my bulbs look similar. They have a white/green tint that washes out some colors. I'd like it to be more of a cool ocean-like ice blue. For instance, the bubble coral looks very dark. If you were to put it under LEDs it would pop like crazy. I understand that this is just an illusion but I'd still like to see that so I think I'm going to go for supplemental LED bars.

Only thing I’d do is caution you against going nuts with led supplements. Reason being, I have two banks of blue/violet leds that I ran at first. I discovered quickly that at the power I needed to make a visual difference, it was way too much. Too much sharp 450nm and I wound up with a ton of brittle tissue, necrosis, and burned tips all over. It was brutal. This was after acclimating up to 75% power over a couple months time. I immediately turned them off during the regular photoperiod now and just run them very low before and after, and the improvement in health was almost immediate.

 

[cwk84]

So you think it's going to be too much PAR?

 

[leepink23]

Looks like they are really bright! I thought the unique thing with reef brites is that they have a really strong light spill so they not be overpowered by strong halide bulbs.

I just run my halides during the day and the Orphek at night,

Only thing I’d do is caution you against going nuts with led supplements. Reason being, I have two banks of blue/violet leds that I ran at first. I discovered quickly that at the power I needed to make a visual difference, it was way too much. Too much sharp 450nm and I wound up with a ton of brittle tissue, necrosis, and burned tips all over. It was brutal. This was after acclimating up to 75% power over a couple months time. I immediately turned them off during the regular photoperiod now and just run them very low before and after, and the improvement in health was almost immediate.

I do the same, halides run by themselves, Orphek bars at night. These are my Phoenix 14k but on icecap ballast so they run like 300 watts instead of the m80. You have a beautiful tank @Bpb !

 

[cwk84]

Your picture is deceiving as well. It looks like a nice cool blue. I'm aiming for a deep ocean blue like this:

With a mixture of actinic pop like this:

The owner of the tank in the last picture uses a 20k Hamilton supplemented with two actinics and blue + T5s. This is a bit TOO much blue for my taste. Hence, I'd like to be right in the middle between the first and the second picture.

 

[Bpb]

I just run my halides during the day and the Orphek at night,

I do the same, halides run by themselves, Orphek bars at night. These are my Phoenix 14k but on icecap ballast so they run like 300 watts instead of the m80. You have a beautiful tank @Bpb !

Thanks man. I like that grafted monti. Going to have to get one of those eventually

 

[Bpb]

Your picture is deceiving as well. It looks like a nice cool blue. I'm aiming for a deep ocean blue like this:

With a mixture of actinic pop like this:

That bottom one looks like a 20k halide bulb with blue t5 bulb supplements. I’ve seen that look in person. It’s beautiful for sure. I just tend to like a more natural outdoor shallow water look.

Edit just saw you posted that bulb layout lol

 

[cwk84]

That bottom one looks like a 20k halide bulb with blue t5 bulb supplements. I’ve seen that look in person. It’s beautiful for sure. I just tend to like a more natural outdoor shallow water look

Yea I don't like that outdoor shallow water look all the time. I'd like to have a mixed spectrum just in between shallow water look and deep ocean actinic blue look. Maybe I do need 20k bulbs.

 

[Bpb]

Yea I don't like that outdoor shallow water look all the time. I'd like to have a mixed spectrum just in between shallow water look and deep ocean actinic blue look. Maybe I do need 20k bulbs.

20k bulbs without supplements would likely get you there. I can’t with certainty say your growth would be slower than with 14k. I think too many factors will be at play there.

 

[cwk84]

I found another great picture. I have yet to see one MH tank that looks like this.

Metal halides without any form of supplementation don't make corals pop that much. They might produce more pigment but you won't see it unless you bring them out with fluoresent bulbs. For instance, too much blue drowns out the reds and pinks in the tank, so no matter how healthy and colorful red or pink corals are, they won't pop under 20k halides. On the contrary, everything that's green will pop. With bulbs that are closer to 10k you'll see more of the oranges, reds, pinks pop but not the greens. I want every color to pop and it seems like that there will always be a trade off with metal halides without supplementation.

 

[Bpb]

I found another great picture. I have yet to see one MH tank that looks like this.

Metal halides without any form of supplementation don't make corals pop that much. They might produce more pigment but you won't see it unless you bring them out with fluoresent bulbs. For instance, too much blue drowns out the reds and pinks in the tank, so no matter how healthy and colorful red or pink corals are, they won't pop under 20k halides. On the contrary, everything that's green will pop. With bulbs that are closer to 10k you'll see more of the oranges, reds, pinks pop but not the greens. I want every color to pop and it seems like that there will always be a trade off with metal halides without supplementation.

I’d call that a fair assessment. My colors under t5 were head and shoulders better than under mh, but the growth wasn’t quite as dramatic and I’m trying to fill things out so I’m sacrificing color. In the future a mh t5 combo would be ideal to keep the growth trucking along but be able to view and photograph the tank with more vibrancy