phosphate

[reefertank]

.15 a ok level?

 

[Chris04]

That very high for phos. With it that high you can have allot of algae issue Good level is .01 to .03

 

[RobZilla04]

That very high for phos. With it that high you can have allot of algae issue Good level is .01 to .03

I beg to differ.

IMO <.20 is acceptable depending upon the nitrates & Alk. Coral need nutrients, but algae can take over if the balance is outta whack or nutrients are in excess.

It all depends on what kind of system you have. As @Chris04 points out (.01-.03) are ideal phosphate levels for an SPS dominated system. If you take a look at this thread https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/tank-parameters-of-some-masters.295215/ you'll find an average of .18ppm Phosphates among the systems evaluated. Not one spec of algae in those tanks.

Bottom line, you're within the acceptable range. Hard to say if that value is good or bad for your system yet because we do not have enough information.

 

[mitch91175]

I beg to differ.

IMO <.20 is acceptable depending upon the nitrates & Alk. Coral need nutrients, but algae can take over if the balance is outta whack or nutrients are in excess.

It all depends on what kind of system you have. As @Chris04 points out (.01-.03) are ideal phosphate levels for an SPS dominated system. If you take a look at this thread https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/tank-parameters-of-some-masters.295215/ you'll find an average of .18ppm Phosphates among the systems evaluated. Not one spec of algae in those tanks.

Bottom line, you're within the acceptable range. Hard to say if that value is good or bad for your system yet because we do not have enough information.

So do I. My phosphates are ALWAYS higher than .03 and I do not have algae issues. Low nutrient is fine and all but everyone have different needed for their tanks. If you ONLY have SPS then it is much easier to run low nutrient, but if you are going for a reef with a high fish load, then you will likely have higher levels of phosphate. Do not know all the specifics of your tank so it is difficult to give solid advice.

If you have a lot of fish then you will introduce phosphates in with food. For any tank, having a good cleanup crew helps (that includes Tangs).

 

[Bow69]

I beg to differ.

IMO <.20 is acceptable depending upon the nitrates & Alk. Coral need nutrients, but algae can take over if the balance is outta whack or nutrients are in excess.

It all depends on what kind of system you have. As @Chris04 points out (.01-.03) are ideal phosphate levels for an SPS dominated system. If you take a look at this thread https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/tank-parameters-of-some-masters.295215/ you'll find an average of .18ppm Phosphates among the systems evaluated. Not one spec of algae in those tanks.

Bottom line, you're within the acceptable range. Hard to say if that value is good or bad for your system yet because we do not have enough information.

Ikr. I was just asking about this. Natural seawater is around .12ppm. So why does everyone strive for the .05 or less in a sps or otherwise reef tank? Purely algae control???

 

[mitch91175]

Ikr. I was just asking about this. Natural seawater is around .12ppm. So why does everyone strive for the .05 or less in a sps or otherwise reef tank? Purely algae control???

Some say for faster growth/coloration, but I don't worry about having phosphates. Crazy that people strive for 0 phosphates only to add it back via supplementing it

I guess maybe they like having better control on the amount in their system, but then again my reef isn't where I want it either so take my opinion with a grain of salt (do not think it is because of phosphates though, just stopped taking care of it a while back and now getting back full force into it - working from home is great).

 

[cmcoker]

IIRC, Phosphates can get bound into the coral skeleton making them more brittle and weigh less, so that's why SPS peeps want it low.

 

[Chris04]

Ikr. I was just asking about this. Natural seawater is around .12ppm. So why does everyone strive for the .05 or less in a sps or otherwise reef tank? Purely algae control???

IMO when phosphate starting getting high you will see your acro starting to green out. That why most people try to keep it under .05. Also I have noticed in my own tank PE is less when you have higher phos

 

[pj wags]

GFO

 

[IslandLifeReef]

Ikr. I was just asking about this. Natural seawater is around .12ppm. So why does everyone strive for the .05 or less in a sps or otherwise reef tank? Purely algae control???

Where did you get that NSW has phosphates of around .12ppm? Based off the articles of @Randy Holmes-Farley, it is closer to 0.005ppm.

 

[Bow69]

Where did you get that NSW has phosphates of around .12ppm? Based off the articles of @Randy Holmes-Farley, it is closer to 0.005ppm.

 

[Bow69]

Where did you get that NSW has phosphates of around .12ppm? Based off the articles of @Randy Holmes-Farley, it is closer to 0.005ppm.

 

[Bow69]

Where did you get that NSW has phosphates of around .12ppm? Based off the articles of @Randy Holmes-Farley, it is closer to 0.005ppm.

Here are a couple of examples. Am I reading these wrong ???

 

[Bow69]

Where did you get that NSW has phosphates of around .12ppm? Based off the articles of @Randy Holmes-Farley, it is closer to 0.005ppm.

After reading some of @Randy Holmes-Farley articles he states that surface rates are around 0.005ppm. My question then is this, is that a good number to be applied as a rule of thumb to overall readings? Do the levels change drastically as you go deeper into the water colum?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Ikr. I was just asking about this. Natural seawater is around .12ppm.

Not on most coral reefs.

Phosphate In The Reef Aquarium
https://www.reef2reef.com/blog/?p=3184

The orthophosphate concentration in the ocean varies greatly from place to place and also with depth and time of day. Surface waters are greatly depleted in phosphate relative to deeper waters, due to biological activities that sequester phosphate in organisms. Typical ocean surface phosphate concentrations are very low by reefkeeping standards, sometimes as low as 0.005 ppm.1

At concentrations below about 0.03 ppm, the growth rate of many phytoplankton species depends on the phosphate concentration (assuming that something else, such as nitrogen or iron, is not limiting their growth). Above this level, many organisms’ growth rate is independent of phosphate concentration.1 Consequently, to deter algal growth by controlling phosphate, aquarists need to keep the phosphate levels quite low.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

After reading some of @Randy Holmes-Farley articles he states that surface rates are around 0.005ppm. My question then is this, is that a good number to be applied as a rule of thumb to overall readings? Do the levels change drastically as you go deeper into the water colum?

The problem that has arisen from trying to duplicate natural nitrate and phosphate levels is that many organisms get much of their N and P from organic foods they consume, not nitrate and phosphate, and we have a hard time duplicating the effect.

Most concerningly, dinos can become problematic in reefs when we limit other organisms with very low N and P.

 

[chipmunkofdoom2]

I would tend to trust Randy's articles over Live Aquaria's product listing. That's not saying that Live Aquaria is being dishonest, but Randy was very transparent about where his information was sourced, and his source is a major publication by a trusted marine biologist (it was Chemical Oceanography by Frank Millero if anyone is interested).

Regardless of the actual level of phosphates in the wild, reef aquaria survive and thrive at large ranges of phosphate levels. Richard Ross is one well-known example of a healthy and thriving long-term reef aquarium that typically runs phosphates well above 1 ppm (yes, 1 ppm). That doesn't mean everyone should go out and copy Richard's tank. Richard has suggested that his tank naturally selects corals that are able to deal with his particular tank chemistry. Having said that, I don't know how valuable it is to strive for phosphate levels in the couple dozen parts per billion. Unless there are problems with coral health or nuisance algae.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

After reading some of Do the levels change drastically as you go deeper into the water colum?

[COLOR=#000000]Yes, very much so. this graph is from Chemical Oceanography by Frank Millero.

The peak at about 3 umole/kg corresponds to about 0.3 ppm, but the surface values are far, far lower.[/COLOR]

[ATTACH=full]747677[/ATTACH]

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Here are some typical coral reef values (my ppm values entered in bold for ease of understanding). Nearly all of their measurements were below 0.01 ppm phosphate and 0.03 ppm nitrate.

Effects of herbivore exclusion and nutrient enrichment on coral reef macroalgae and cyanobacteria
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s003380000122

Our manipulations were conducted at Marc's Reef, a patch reef in
Cocos Lagoon, Guam. Nutrient concentrations at Val's Reef, an-
other patch reef in Cocos Lagoon approximately 100 m from
Marc's Reef, have been monitored as part of the US EPA ECO-
HAB program for the past 18 months. During that time, phosphate
concentrations have generally been low, ranging from below de-
tectable limits to a maximum of 0.19 uM [0.02 ppm phosphate] and only exceeding 0.1 uM [0.01 ppm phosphate]
on 2 of 12 sampling days. Nitrate concentrations have also been
low, ranging from below detectable limits to a maximum of 0.79 uM [0.05 ppm nitrate]
and only exceeding 0.5 uM [0.03 ppm nitrate] on 1 of 12 sampling days

 

[Bow69]

Well, I’m glad I asked. Ty @Randy Holmes-Farley. This is all just so confusing to us noobs. Every time I think I have something figured out, the bottom falls out. Also, many thanks to everyone else’s opinions and facts on this subject. Like usual, it’s on a case by case basis. It’s just nice to have a forum like this to get solid help from. Thanks guys.