Phytoplankton for control of Phophates and Nitrate in the Reef

[Dr Blue Thumb]

Lol is urine that come from the gills not yellow? Sorry as you know I am not a real Doctor, but I do play one on interent forums,lol fake it until you make it. Don't mind me I am into Socratic style of questioning things until I am right, lol it works sometimes.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Lol is urine that come from the gills not yellow? Sorry as you know I am not a real Doctor, but I do play one on interent forums,lol fake it until you make it. Don't mind me I am into Socratic style of questioning things until I am right, lol it works sometimes.

Ammonia is colorless. Any color in urine is from organic molecules.

 

[Dr Blue Thumb]

A little off topic but pertains to water clarity which is water quality. when macro algae is sqeezed for example what is it that is being released that is green in colour? is it chlorophyll? and will a skimmer take that out? or is activated carbon better for that discoloring of water. same for urine, what takes out the urine out of the tank better? skimmer/algae or activated carbon?

Thanks for the info

 

[Dr Blue Thumb]

I think I am slowly getting it, So the organics molecule which are yellow for the most part can be taken out using a skimmer. Can they be taken out by being consumed by coral and sponges to a degree?

Also a weird qustion but I noticed phyto is alive and if it is alive it must release waste. What is this waste product?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

A little off topic but pertains to water clarity which is water quality. when macro algae is sqeezed for example what is it that is being released that is green in colour? is it chlorophyll? and will a skimmer take that out? or is activated carbon better for that discoloring of water. same for urine, what takes out the urine out of the tank better? skimmer/algae or activated carbon?

Thanks for the info

The green color is chlorophyll, but there will be other organics released by algae and other organisms that either absorb light to some extent (such as heme-containing molecules), or which get modified later in the aquarium to absorb light.

Water yellowing in an aquarium is always from organics, but not necessarily from the form first produced by the primary releaser of that organic.

GAC is seemingly the most effective way to remove typical organics from the water, likely followed by skimming.

Ozone can make the water less colored, perhaps even better than GAC, but it does not necessarily remove the organic. It chemically changes them to absorb less light.

 

[Dr Blue Thumb]

So I think will keep GAC, but not the skimmer only for experimentation. I want a lot of organics in tank but not from a large bioload from fish. But I want a mini critter bioload that actually earn their keep. After all they must release DOM to right?

 

[shiftline]

4 cups to what size tank? how long has it been running?

Display is about 100g It's been running for over a year.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

So I think will keep GAC, but not the skimmer only for experimentation. I want a lot of organics in tank but not from a large bioload from fish. But I want a mini critter bioload that actually earn their keep. After all they must release DOM to right?

I expect that all organisms release some types of dissolved organic matter. Whether that is desirable or undesirable may depend on what the organics are, ranging from useful foods for other organisms, to toxins.

 

[Dr Blue Thumb]

cool thanks, there is not too many people I can discuss the benefits of poo with. Now my question is, wouldn't the more smaller molecule of poo/maybe phyto be more benfitial to smaller mouths? and or be more absorbed by larger bellies? as in someone drinking a energy drink with pureed/mixed up food, would this be more better so that the organisms degestive system not have to work so hard?

 

[Dr Blue Thumb]

What organic does phyto release as a waste?

 

[Dr Blue Thumb]

Display is about 100g It's been running for over a year.

Nice, I will be dosing the same, keep me updated on your progress?

 

[sundog101]

This is an interesting concept, but here's the problem I see:

The nutrients are not being exported.

Organisms may be consuming them, but they are still in the tank. Maybe you would see some short term improvement, but I would think that the nutrients would build up. However, I've been wrong before .

 

[Dr Blue Thumb]

https://www.livingoceansfoundation.org/education/portal/course/feeding/#predation

https://books.google.ca/books?id=hKvrCAAAQBAJ&pg=PA51&lpg=PA51&dq=is+nitrate+and+phosphate+consumed+by+coral&source=bl&ots=CCcdF2BLnR&sig=FL7I1HeZVSCi5P1V1PKHugH9l2o&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiFl533voHTAhVG64MKHViwDasQ6AEIXjAH#v=onepage&q=is nitrate and phosphate consumed by coral&f=false

I know corals are considered animals but what characteristics do they have of plants?

example do they consume P/N to some extent?

 

[Dr Blue Thumb]

Is it true that flagella are in the stomach of a coral and cilia on the external tissue of the coral ? and both are compable of consuming DOM and maybe micro algae and bacteria ?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

What organic does phyto release as a waste?

https://academic.oup.com/plankt/art...lease-by-phytoplankton-its?redirectedFrom=PDF

Organic carbon release by phytoplankton: its composition and utilization by bacterioplankton

Abstract
The present study characterized the rate of production of extracellularly released organic carbon (ROC) by phytoplankton, its molecular weight distribution, subsequent utilization and transformation by bacterioplankton in situ. Primary production rate of phytoplankton was high during the study due to continuous blooms of small dinoflagellates and ranged from 59.8 to 298.7μg CI−1 h−1. The rate of organic carbon release varied from 1.3 to 123.7 μg CI−1 h−1 and constituted from 4.0 to 68.9% of the total carbon fixed in photosynthesis. The ROC was fractionated on molecular weight (MW) basis. A low MW fraction less than 500 daltons (18.5% of ROC), a fraction of MW 10 000–30 000 daltons (30% of ROC), and high MW fraction of > 300 000 daltons (15.4% of ROC), were the most dominant in ROC. Bacterioplankton utilized a significant portion of ROC, ranging from 18 to 77%. Part of the utilized ROC incorporated by the bacterioplankton (31 – 56%), and the remainder was respired (mineralized). ROC not utilized by bacteria was composed of high MW compounds. The dynamics of the in situ utilization of ROC and its role as a link between autotrophic and heterotrophic processes in the estuary are described.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

https://www.livingoceansfoundation.org/education/portal/course/feeding/#predation

https://books.google.ca/books?id=hKvrCAAAQBAJ&pg=PA51&lpg=PA51&dq=is+nitrate+and+phosphate+consumed+by+coral&source=bl&ots=CCcdF2BLnR&sig=FL7I1HeZVSCi5P1V1PKHugH9l2o&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiFl533voHTAhVG64MKHViwDasQ6AEIXjAH#v=onepage&q=is nitrate and phosphate consumed by coral&f=false

I know corals are considered animals but what characteristics do they have of plants?

example do they consume P/N to some extent?

Photosynthetic organisms in general take up N and P to build their tissues.

 

[Dr Blue Thumb]

Photosynthetic organisms in general take up N and P to build their tissues.

Great to hear

 

[najer]

Great discussion, I run my tank "differently" and people are generally surprised how well things do.
It's only 18 months old so it is still developing, 2/5 of my top tank is a display refugium (read algae dirty) and my sump has a refugium (that I don't disturb), 2 heaters and 2 return pumps.
Last water change was 12 months ago (not triton, manually dose for kh cal and mag).
If it works for you and your animals are healthy and happy, job done.

 

[Dr Blue Thumb]

I'm going with a ball of cheeto on my 90

https://academic.oup.com/plankt/art...lease-by-phytoplankton-its?redirectedFrom=PDF

Organic carbon release by phytoplankton: its composition and utilization by bacterioplankton

Abstract
The present study characterized the rate of production of extracellularly released organic carbon (ROC) by phytoplankton, its molecular weight distribution, subsequent utilization and transformation by bacterioplankton in situ. Primary production rate of phytoplankton was high during the study due to continuous blooms of small dinoflagellates and ranged from 59.8 to 298.7μg CI−1 h−1. The rate of organic carbon release varied from 1.3 to 123.7 μg CI−1 h−1 and constituted from 4.0 to 68.9% of the total carbon fixed in photosynthesis. The ROC was fractionated on molecular weight (MW) basis. A low MW fraction less than 500 daltons (18.5% of ROC), a fraction of MW 10 000–30 000 daltons (30% of ROC), and high MW fraction of > 300 000 daltons (15.4% of ROC), were the most dominant in ROC. Bacterioplankton utilized a significant portion of ROC, ranging from 18 to 77%. Part of the utilized ROC incorporated by the bacterioplankton (31 – 56%), and the remainder was respired (mineralized). ROC not utilized by bacteria was composed of high MW compounds. The dynamics of the in situ utilization of ROC and its role as a link between autotrophic and heterotrophic processes in the estuary are described.

Bacterialplankton would be smaller then phyto right? And would get traped onto the Celia hair of the coral on the outside and absorbed by sponges ?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Bacterialplankton would be smaller then phyto right? And would get traped onto the Celia hair of the coral on the outside and absorbed by sponges ?

I'm not an expert on sizes or what eats what, but individual bacteria are usually on the smaller size end of plankton (not counting viruses). That said, bacteria readily attached to particulates and each other, so are not necessarily individuals floating free.