Please help im still losing corals. Lost near 600$ in corals so far

RVA REEF

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great idea when youre having problems is to buy new corals and then ask for care tips
 
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SaltISlife

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You use tap water?? Lol. Well there’s your problem. Might want to see if your water company started using cholamine. Unfortunately if you are using tap water you are at the mercy of water chemicals the water company doses...

bragging about the money spent on coral but cheap out by not using an rodi system.


You must have reading comprehension issues. I didnt do water changes for 3 months, and the tanks has been running on tap for over 2 actually almost 3 years now i still have the same corals i started off with 3 years ago . The issue started towards the end of the 3 months i didnt do a water change.

As for bragging about money spent ? umm so i bragged i spent money on corals by saying i lost 600$ in coral ? Remind me again how that is bragging ? You sound je-leous or something, especially over an issue i never once bragged about. I simply stated how much money i lost in corals

I think you need to re-think your life choices, before you go bashing someone about something you have no clue about. Because A. this issue isnt happening in my other two reef tanks that have chalices or favia. B.. This issue didnt start until i Dosed kents products, bought more corals, and put in the lace rock. So its either those 3.

Back on topic. Ive been dipping the affected favia in doxycycline the last 3 days for 5-15 min. And the recession stopped on one of them and the coral has been inflated and looks to be healing now. I also did an experiment by taking a good sized frag of the same lemon lime favia thats been dying in the main tank, and i decided to take a scraping of the dying favia and rubbed it on the good favia from the unaffected tank. I then placed it into my QT, and over the last 3 days that favia has been getting holes in its skin and stning the hole get progressivly bigger as time goes by.

This for me concludes the issue is not water quality, nore from the dosing, and it might not be from the lace rock after all, but it could in fact be bacterial or maybe Viral in nature.. I am going to start dipping this coral in doxycycline like i did the others and see if it comes back or not.
 
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SaltISlife

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What’s the tds of your tap water, since I know you don’t use a rodi? Cause sometimes it abruptly increases and can cause a ton of issues or stuff just builds up to a point where it will cause problems. I think not using rodi is your major issue but an icp test would confirm this is the issue.
no idea
 
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SaltISlife

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I see some lichen and poriferan sponge in some areas.
Lets start with chemistry. I have not read through all the posts but have a general idea.
Water :
Are you using RODI water or tap water from the faucet? If RO, what is your TDS ?
What salt mix are you using?

Tank should be at:

Temp 77-79 - Yours ?
Salinity 1.025 Yours?
ph 8.1 -8.3 Yours ?
nitrate <.04 Yours?
Ammonia < .03 Yours?
Phos < .04 Yours
Alk 8-9 Yours?
Mag 1300 Yours ?
Ca 440 Yours?

What test kit(s) are you using ?
What is your method of nutrient export?
Moderate water flow and lighting is best. what is your lighting schedule?
- If mixed reef, both LPS and SPS do release toxins which become chemical warfare. Are you using a high grade carbon such as ChemiPure blue to alleviate this? This is one cause of mystery coral death in reefing.
- Are you dosing and by what method ( hand or dosing unit) ?
- Has there Ever been copper in the tank?
- False salinity has caused this fr many including myself- Have you calibrated your gage? What do you use to test it?

As a suggestion- I agree on doing an ICP test but in mean time , take a good size water sample to a TRUSTED LFS and have them test as many parameters as they can for you and compare to your readings and see if they find any that are off and differ from yours including salinity.
To answer your questions.

I have 2 gallons of seachem Denitrate to remove nitrates running at 30gph and i can confirm it works as the outlet is lower in nitrates that whats in my water. It does work to keep nitrates at 20ppm if i dont iverfeed the tabk like i did when it got to 70ppm before my huge water changes i did a week or 2 ago. Yes i have carbon and im using that expensive poly fill for metals and stuff

Never used copper in the system

Local fish stores dont use anything different than i use APi and Salifert kits. In fact i do water testing for one when hes busy and im there to lend a hand hah.

My readings are mag 1360 atm,
calcium 450,
Ph is 8.0 during the day 7.8 at night,
Alk is 8.5 atm,
Temp is 80f,
ammonia 0,
nitrates 15ppm,
phosphate i only have api so it say .25 but its probly way lower ill look into getting a better kit today actually,
Salinity 1.0264 on the dot using calibratd with brs juice and two refractometers

I use reef crystals

No idea what my TDS is im using tap. And have been for 3 years. According to someone link the tap here was 190tds.


Anyway my suspicions being bacterial or viral are true. That one lemon lime favia whome i put a scraping of an affected coral on is still progressing to receed. And its in a qt tank. The coral was doing great in a seperate system too. Until i put a scraling from a dying coral on it.

I dipped the corals affected in my nain tabk in api general cure which is prazi and metronidazole. No affect. Then i started dipping them in Doxycycline. That started having an affect. But didnt stop it 100%. Desperate i took a q tip to a palm sized favia i have with 4 dying spots. And i dipped the q tip in hand sanitizer ( i know im desperate though) and i dabbed the receeding spots in hand sanitizer

The coral has been un touched for 2 days now. Night 1 it was reacting badly to the alcohol but day 1 with the lights on it started healing. Night 2 receeding has stopped and i see new flesh being made. Day 2. The coral is healing and hasnt receeded anymore.

Im going to take ny lemon lime favia i did my experiment on and try a doxycycline dip and dab the effected areas in saniztizer and see if it has the same affect.

I noticed though 2 days ago my giant green bubble coral has two holes in it. Its bigger than a basketball. And that coral i do not want to lose. Since they are so sensitive im not touching it. It seems to be noving the bubbles to the affected areas to cover them. And it squeezes itself to keeo them closed. 2 days of observation and it looks to be healing itself on its own i think.
 
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Cell

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That is awesome you've had success with tap water for several years. But now you are not having success. The problem with tap water is that you are at the mercy of your local water treatment plant who isnt going to let you know if they change the chemicals being added to treat the water. It's the biggest red flag in your system and one of the easiest things to remedy. Is it the source of your problems? Maybe, maybe not. But making the switch will only help your reef whether it fixes this particular issue or not.
 
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SaltISlife

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That is awesome you've had success with tap water for several years. But now you are not having success. The problem with tap water is that you are at the mercy of your local water treatment plant who isnt going to let you know if they change the chemicals being added to treat the water. It's the biggest red flag in your system and one of the easiest things to remedy. Is it the source of your problems? Maybe, maybe not. But making the switch will only help your reef whether it fixes this particular issue or not.
Tanks in the 3rd level i simply cannot do it. I dont have the means to setup rodi or store the water up here in 50 gallon trash cans for water changes. I could put a unit in a bathroom sink. Then what ? Where do i put the water made. In the bathtub ? . It wont fix the issue as it isnt the cause. But i hear you. I do
 

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50 gallon? Are you doing 30% water changes? If you stuck to 10% that's a few buckets to haul up the stairs per water change. Lugging buckets of water around sucks, but so does losing $600 worth of coral.
 
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Yes i normally do 40-50 gallon water changes once every 3 weeks. I find 10% doesnt do enough to remove nitrates if they get too high i have a high bioload. Denitrates help but it isnt 100%.

Basement is rented. I cant store water anywhere. Trust me.
 

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While I’m sorry for the coral losses, I’m shocked at how you’ve ignored every single piece of advice people have given you. You initially told everyone they were wrong and it was the lace rock. Then you decided it’s bacterial. And now you’re using hand sanitizer?!?! And then there’s the tap water issue.
Good luck with the recovery. Also, it’s “putty” not “puddy”.
 
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SaltISlife

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Because it started when i

A. Bought corals from a locsl fish store that has the same issues with chalices and favias.

B. When i put the lace rock in the tank.


This didnt happen because of tap water.

What other (advice) have i gotten besides the same rant of rodi is god and all tap water kills every living organism on the planet ?

Did you read the part where i put a scraping of a affected coral on a coral in a seperate system that isnt affected, put it into a qt tank to observe and it too is showing dying spots that are receeding ?

This is the coral in question. I took the top part off to save a peice of it in case my theory was correct.

And yes btw the dipping in doxy and the hand saniztizer worked. 2 days after the fact the other coral is healing and has stopped its regression. How else can you explain it ? Other than whatever it was is bacterial.

Are you denying the science here of taking affected scrapings to see if it is indeed bacterial or not ? This could be bacterial and has nothing to do with water ive used for 3 years in a reef and 20 for discus in fresh water. Did you also miss the mention that i didnt do water changes for 3 months. Why would something suddenly start 3 months down the road from tao water if i never did a water change in those 3 months ? If im at the mercy of the water company how would that have any coralation eith whats going on if DIDNT DO A WATER CHANGE with the tap for so long. Going by what you and a few other people are saying. This should hsve started right away day 1 3 years ago.

Seriously this is getting annoying.

I cant just suddenly go out and get icp results in 2 days. And i hear the tap and rodi argument. But youre seriously beating a dead horse with it now. Because im flat out going to ignore that. That is no the cause. The issue in hand for the 30000th time started when i got corals fron a local store that has been having identical issues with its LPS favias and chalices. And ive seen it on some of their torchs. This also started when i put the lace rock in. That or the dosing. It was 3 things. I just wasnt sure which did it.

And with the scrapings... it only concludes it is something virulent. And NOT WATER QUALITY.

Screenshot_20210105-083917_Gallery.jpg 20201228_171933.jpg
 
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X-37B

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WOW! Report us please! Where are the mods! @mods, check all of this persons post please. I have read all of this including all of your other post on this site.
Just one thing. Let us know the lfs you buy corals at with obvious problems so we can avoid it.
Fight The Good Fight, Peace!
 
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Just out of curiosity, if you don’t have a place to collect RO water, where do you mix your salt or fill your ATO? Do you fill buckets from the kitchen sink or something?
 

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That is awesome you've had success with tap water for several years. But now you are not having success. The problem with tap water is that you are at the mercy of your local water treatment plant who isnt going to let you know if they change the chemicals being added to treat the water. It's the biggest red flag in your system and one of the easiest things to remedy. Is it the source of your problems? Maybe, maybe not. But making the switch will only help your reef whether it fixes this particular issue or not.
In fall, many municipalities add chlorine, chloromine, fluoride, magnesium and other elements to their water.
 

vetteguy53081

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To answer your questions.

I have 2 gallons of seachem Denitrate to remove nitrates running at 30gph and i can confirm it works as the outlet is lower in nitrates that whats in my water. It does work to keep nitrates at 20ppm if i dont iverfeed the tabk like i did when it got to 70ppm before my huge water changes i did a week or 2 ago. Yes i have carbon and im using that expensive poly fill for metals and stuff

Never used copper in the system

Local fish stores dont use anything different than i use APi and Salifert kits. In fact i do water testing for one when hes busy and im there to lend a hand hah.

My readings are mag 1360 atm,
calcium 450,
Ph is 8.0 during the day 7.8 at night,
Alk is 8.5 atm,
Temp is 80f,
ammonia 0,
nitrates 15ppm,
phosphate i only have api so it say .25 but its probly way lower ill look into getting a better kit today actually,
Salinity 1.0264 on the dot using calibratd with brs juice and two refractometers

I use reef crystals

No idea what my TDS is im using tap. And have been for 3 years. According to someone link the tap here was 190tds.


Anyway my suspicions being bacterial or viral are true. That one lemon lime favia whome i put a scraping of an affected coral on is still progressing to receed. And its in a qt tank. The coral was doing great in a seperate system too. Until i put a scraling from a dying coral on it.

I dipped the corals affected in my nain tabk in api general cure which is prazi and metronidazole. No affect. Then i started dipping them in Doxycycline. That started having an affect. But didnt stop it 100%. Desperate i took a q tip to a palm sized favia i have with 4 dying spots. And i dipped the q tip in hand sanitizer ( i know im desperate though) and i dabbed the receeding spots in hand sanitizer

The coral has been un touched for 2 days now. Night 1 it was reacting badly to the alcohol but day 1 with the lights on it started healing. Night 2 receeding has stopped and i see new flesh being made. Day 2. The coral is healing and hasnt receeded anymore.

Im going to take ny lemon lime favia i did my experiment on and try a doxycycline dip and dab the effected areas in saniztizer and see if it has the same affect.

I noticed though 2 days ago my giant green bubble coral has two holes in it. Its bigger than a basketball. And that coral i do not want to lose. Since they are so sensitive im not touching it. It seems to be noving the bubbles to the affected areas to cover them. And it squeezes itself to keeo them closed. 2 days of observation and it looks to be healing itself on its own i think.
Response says bacterial from sanitizer (new one to me)
I too used tap for 2 years on an old tank and while a pretty tank did have periodic losses. Ceased once I used RO water from Walmart
 

DoctaReef

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1. Use RODI water.
2. Get an ICP test.
3. Are you SURE there's no hitchhiker crabs, shrimp or snails in the tank? The "lights off effect" makes me wonder. I had a peppermint shrimp that liked to attack a chalice of mine, and they're mostly nocturnal.
 

KrisReef

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Hand sanitizer + Doxy cures Prazi resistant microbes? Fantastic! Interesting method.

Very interesting reading.

Play nice, folks!

Oh No Twitch GIF by HUPChallenge
 

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Assume its not a rodi/tap water issue (already said my piece in that other massive rodi vs no rodi thread), the other advice for you is to raise your PH up to 8.3.

I know you had you've had it at 7.8-8 for ages and it was fine, the issue is that you really don't see how low PH impacts stony corals unless you understand the chemistry of calcium carbonate formation. Corals can tolerate the full range from 7.7 to 8.3 but doesn't mean they thrive in it. When the rest of the conditions are "perfect," A piece may "look nice" and grow at 7.8. But the inside could be weak and brittle and cannot tolerate stress or small changes as well as a piece grown at 8.3 PH. This could be why acans and chalice are effected, since these are sensitive corals to begin with and they have large stony structures thats susceptible to being secretly weakened in prolonged exposure to low ph.

Maybe its a bacterial issue, maybe its something new in your tap thats effecting sensitive corals, but had they been growing at 8.3ph they may have been strong enough to survive thru this negative stressor (whatever it may be)
 

DeniseAndy

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Good point @Dkmoo, I worked with a public aquarium that could not figure out how they could have things go good for a couple years and then all die off. I began asking about parameters and they were low on a few. Basically, the anemones (in this case) and corals (in another case) were in too low of salinity and pH. They could survive a short time like this even over a year or close to two, but eventually they could not maintain life. Took its toll. Like fish in too low of salinity. It drops their lifespan.

This may not pertain to the issue, but it is a good thought to keep in mind.
 

Reefing Madness

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Thats it gang, time to settle down. When you ask for suggestions, your going to get all kinds, no need to respond to any of them if you wish, or respond to the ones you want, but please don't take shots at anyone.
 

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