Please, help me to figure out what went wrong in my SPS tank

[allabarton]

Please, help me to figure out what went wrong in my SPS tank.

SPS corals look dry and brown with bad PE. Some have white tips. Some RTN from the base. Some all white. All happened within a week.

-180g with Sump 20g+ running since June 1 2012;
-Profilux controller;
-ATB 1050A skimmer (rated 480g);
-4 Radion with TIR lenses set to 35% intensity;
-GFO reactor (1.5-2 cups BRS GFO HP changed every 3-4 weeks);
-Activated Carbon reactor (1.5-2 cups changed every 3-4 weeks);
-Dosing Kalkwasser via ATO (1.3 teaspoon per 1g);
-Dose Epsom to bring Mg up when needed;
-Dose Kent Liquid Calcium to bring Ca up when needed;
-Tropic Marin Bio-Actif Salt;
-6 fish (tangs, triggerfish, clowns, angelfish);
-30 SPS (most of them Acropoa) frags and mini colonies + 1 Scolymia + 1 Hammer;
-all SPS corals stay in QT for a couple of days; dosing interceptor; dipping in Revive before DT;

-Alk 148-151ppm (8.3-8.5dKH) Hanna Checker;
-Ca 450ppm Red Sea test;
-Mg 1350ppm Red Sea test;
-Nitrite 0 (Hanna Checker);
-Nitrate < 2
-phosphate 0ppm ( Hanna Checker) and 0.05 1-2 hours after feeding;
-1.025 Salinity;
- water change 16g every week;
-RODI with TDS 0;


End of November started to fight Cyano (fed fish frozen food 2 times a day and Nori and was feeding corals Oyster Feast ). All the corals were looking great.
I cut feedings to once a day giving only a half portion. Feeding only fish.
December 7 added 13 new SPS frags.
I noticed one of SPS mini colonies started to look off: dry brownish look. I removed it from DT. I started to notice some corals getting brownish tone and shrank (dry) look.
December 13 I used a lot of EcoTech Glue to place 13 new SPS frags on rocks.
December 16:
Changed Activated Carbon & GFO as usual same patch;
December 17:
Alk 135ppm/7.56dKH
Ca 410 ppm
Mg 1200 ppm
Added Liquid Calcium 6 teaspoons
Dosing Epson Salt;
Between December 16 and 21 I was trying to bring Alk up to 8.5 by adding more Kalkwasser to ATO (1.9 teaspoon per 1g). At some point I mixed Kalkwasser in ATO container and let it sit 1-2 hours before turning a dosing pump.
December 19 my Blue Tenuis is loosing tissue (peeling off).
I was gone for a couple of day. Did not feed fish for one day. Came back.
All my SPS looked terrible. Bad or no PE. Most of them looked dry and shrank. A couple of them RTN. Some have white bleached tips. Scolymia looks shrank. Only hammer looked almost as usual. Fish, cleaner shrimp, fighting conchs and CUC were fine.
Ph was 8.45 from usual 8.2-8.3. I added RODI water to dilute Kalkwasser a little bit. I dosed a little more Epsom Salt to bring Mg to 1350 (bad move).
All Cyano was gone. GHA looked brown. Water looked too clear. No Algae on the glass at all for 4 days.
Now all the parameters are back to usual as it was when all the corals looked good. See above.

Please, forgive me for too much info. I just want to figure what went wrong so I would not make another mistake.

Thank you

Alla

 

[scooterc268]

Maybe too much sulfide(s) from just dosing Epsom salt? Have you used Mg Chloride, ever? This is my only true guess. Depends on what part of the world you live, you could order Bulk Reef Supply 2 or 3 part dosing. Someone could list what the three part consist of. I use a Ca Reactor, with PH controller and that's pretty much it. No fancy controllers, keep it simple I guess.

Too clean of water could do this, well, that's what I heard.




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[darryl_v]

The best advice is dont rush it.....dont jump into a full blown sps reef....be patient...follow your gut and watch parameters but take time....when things are good already...that is the time to jump in. Other wise...just dip a toe.

Sorry too many egg nogs.

 

[slapshot]

Did you test for AEFWs? Sounds like an over run tank to me. Another possibility is a spike in salinity and or phosphates. That will brown them in a split second. Is it possible the Epsom salt raised the salinity? I use it all the time so it's not the surfer.

 

[lakeviewink]

Parameter swings? Salinity swing? A lot has happened in a short amount of time. What kind of flow? Direct?

 

[JonnyJ]

If you don't see any evidence of aefw then I doubt that's the case.

You seem like you have a pretty good understanding and log of your tank from your detailed post.

Are you doing 30% waterchanges total volume per month?

Did you make sure none of the solid kalk was introduced via ato?

Is your tank on a controller?

I see you tested with a Hannah meter, I don't trust them at all and could prove an alk swing. I would guess your alk may have dropped lower than what your results shown.

For a stable tank to rapidly decline there must have been some sort of swing.

 

[allabarton]

Maybe too much sulfide(s) from just dosing Epsom salt? Have you used Mg Chloride, ever? This is my only true guess. Depends on what part of the world you live, you could order Bulk Reef Supply 2 or 3 part dosing. Someone could list what the three part consist of. I use a Ca Reactor, with PH controller and that's pretty much it. No fancy controllers, keep it simple I guess.

Too clean of water could do this, well, that's what I heard.

I just started reading that Epsom add a lot of Sulfide. I am going to order Mg supplement from BRS.
Would too much Sulfide make SPS look dry and shrunk (branches became very thin)?
Thank you.

 

[allabarton]

The best advice is dont rush it.....dont jump into a full blown sps reef....be patient...follow your gut and watch parameters but take time....when things are good already...that is the time to jump in. Other wise...just dip a toe.

Sorry too many egg nogs.

:bigsmile: I know. I went to crazy with SPSs. The tank was dong well so I thought why not. Probably adding to many corals at once in a new system was not a good idea. Since now and on I will be adding a few corals at the time. Thank you.
I hope my husband would not count how many corals I killed. :sad:

 

[allabarton]

Did you test for AEFWs? Sounds like an over run tank to me. Another possibility is a spike in salinity and or phosphates. That will brown them in a split second. Is it possible the Epsom salt raised the salinity? I use it all the time so it's not the surfer.

I decided to leave all the corals in the tank so not to stress them even more. Tell you the truth I would not even know what to look for. I dip corals and the place I buy them dip their corals multiple times.
How do corals with AEFW look like? The whole appearance? Also is it possible to see AEFW with a naked eye just observing corals in the tank? Do worms move? Thank you.

 

[allabarton]

Parameter swings? Salinity swing? A lot has happened in a short amount of time. What kind of flow? Direct?

I have 2 MP60 running on the opposite sides set to about 40%.
I checked salinity and it was the same as usual. The salinity is always the same. Only Alk was swinging from 7.5 to 8.5 back and forth for a few days until I figured Kalkwasser dose. Weather changed so the water does not evaporate much. Also Ca and Mg dropped since I added new corals. And then me trying to bring them up.
Is swing from 7.5 to 8.5 to 7.5 back and forth every day a big swing? Would that stress the corals a lot?
Thank you.

 

[allabarton]

If you don't see any evidence of aefw then I doubt that's the case.

You seem like you have a pretty good understanding and log of your tank from your detailed post.

Are you doing 30% waterchanges total volume per month?

Did you make sure none of the solid kalk was introduced via ato?

Is your tank on a controller?

I see you tested with a Hannah meter, I don't trust them at all and could prove an alk swing. I would guess your alk may have dropped lower than what your results shown.

For a stable tank to rapidly decline there must have been some sort of swing.

I am doing about 35% water change a months. But I do about 9% every week.
My tank is on Profilux. I use optical level probe for ATO.

If my Hanna readings are off I double check with Red Sea. Same readings.

Kalkwasser: I did stir Kalkwasser in ATO container. I let it sit not more than an hour before the dosing pump went on. I dose Kalkwasser via ATO in a filter bag. Then it has to travel thru skimmer camber and Refugium. Is it possible for solid Kalk to get in DT? Because, that would explain why my corals in the muddle suffer the most. Since returns are pointed in the center. Would Kalk couse for the tissue on all mini colony to peel of? The Tenus still has PE on the bottom.
Thank you.

 

[allabarton]

I decided to leave all the corals along for further observation. Since I still don't know what went wrong.
I am not sure if it is ok to leave frags with RTN in DT.
Also I don't understand why my Alk, Ca and Mg are going down. I use the same tests, same mix RODI/Kalkwasser in ATO 18g container, same evoperation rate. Is it normal? Is it a big swing to affect corals?
-December 23
Alk 151ppm/8.5dKH
Ca 450 ppm
Mg 1350 ppm
Ph 8.27-8.38
-December 24
Alk 148ppm/8.3dKH
Ph 8.25
-December 25
Alk 141ppm/7.9dKH
Ca 415 ppm
Mg 1300 ppm
Ph 8.36
-December 26
Alk 138ppm/7.7dKH
Ph 8.38

 

[allabarton]

What could be a cause for a coral to look skinny. Before all this started I noticed 2 mini Acro colonies started to look skinny. Literally skinny.

 

[allabarton]

I know it is not good to add too many fish at once especially in a new system. Does it apply to corals? Too many corals at once?
Please, any thoughts. I am very new in this hobby. I am very dedicated and would love to have a beautiful tank. Right know I feel lost and frustrated.

 

[tinkerman]

What did you change before dec? It sounds like you had a mini cycle and destablized your tank and sent your parms swinging. Did you up your feedings, add fish ect.... in oct or nov?

 

[Reefltx]

I know it is not good to add too many fish at once especially in a new system. Does it apply to corals? Too many corals at once?
Please, any thoughts. I am very new in this hobby. I am very dedicated and would love to have a beautiful tank. Right know I feel lost and frustrated.

I don't think the same apply to corals, they're not adding much to the bio-load. Though, when adding a lot of SPS all at once, it's not unusual to see a steady or rapid drop in parameters. As far as your SPS being skinny, sometimes it has to do with flow. They encrust and grow thicker when given high flow, low flow you'll get the opposite. If the SPS is wild, I notice they tend to have different growth patterns (thinner branches) once given time to grow in an aquarium setting. I don't think we can match the type of flow they get in the ocean.

As far as being frustrated, well welcome to the SPS world!!

 

[Rydogg420]

I say you need to slow down on the corals at this time... i Think your tank is to "new" and needs to break in a little bit more before you jam it full of SPS..

I dont think it is chunks of kalk that got in your tank. that would only affect the corals it landed on and leave "burn" marks.. My lazy buddy has this issue...

Also adding 13 plus corals at once is an issue IMO because you could have not checked each one all that well before adding to the tank. even when I dip my corals I see some bugs that did not die and I needed to re dip them before the bugs finally died off. So you could have some bad critters in your tank.. It is hard to say without seeing the affected corals and see how the tissue is. you can sometimes tell if something is eating the corals. So if you can take some pics that would be great..

I would also stop using epson salt for mg. Just buy the mg off BRS. I use their 3 part dosing and I have not had one issue and it seems to work very well. I will not use kent cal or anything like that.. I never had good luck using those brands for dosing. Also do you check to see if the epson salt raises your salinity?? I could see the last time you raised the MG you might have added too much epson salt and raised the salinity too much. That will mess up an SPS tank fast.

But without pics it is kinda hard to say what went wrong here. Maybe just bad luck, maybe because its a new system and it cant handle the load you put in it so fast or maybe you have a tank full of bad bugs eating your corals.. I dont care who dips the corals before you get them and dip them yourself, you ALWAYS need to look them over before you add them to your tank.. I know crabs are not really affected from most coral dips. I see them live after getting dipped and go on into the DT if you dont pull them off..

Also are you sure your lighting is where it needs to be? just cause it is nice $$ lights doesnt mean it is not too much light or too little light output.. I say this because My buddy has "thin" brown corals and it is because his lights are not as bright as he needs and the corals thin out because of this..

There are just WAY too many things to say what caused this issue, but I am thinking bad bugs or your fish are starting to eat your corals from not feeding them as much as you used to. What type of angle do you have and what trigger do you have? I could see them eating your SPS in a weeks time. maybe even in a few days if they are coral munchers. I had a yellow tang destroy my sps in a few days and tangs dont eat corals.. Right???!!! lol...

 

[Zack]

Sorry to hear about all the sps frustration, hang in there!!!!!

 

[allabarton]

What did you change before dec? It sounds like you had a mini cycle and destablized your tank and sent your parms swinging. Did you up your feedings, add fish ect.... in oct or nov?

-November 10 I had people installing a cabinet and a canopy over my tank. While I was out the guys decided to cut out a piece of metal powder coated stand to fit the cabinet. They did not bother to cover the sump. Of course metal/paint particles got in the water. I was in shock. But days passed and the corals and fish looked and acted as usual. I was thinking fresh activated carbon in a rector would help to remove any harmful substance. I was worried about cupper in the steel.
-November 10 I switched to TIR lenses on my Radions. I tuned the LED down by 35%. They are still running with the same strangth. 2-2.5 weeks later all the corals still looking great. Growing fast. Nice color.
-November 10 I added my 5.5" Bluethroat Triggerfish to DT from QT. That guy made a total mess in the tank during his feedings. And of course I loved feeding him Krill and Silverside out of my hands. Within a few days I got a major Cyano outbreak.
-November 20 I hooked ATO to a controller dosing RODI with Kalkwasser via dosing pump instead of constant dripping out of 5g jar.
-November 26 I dosed 300g of Epsom mixed with 1g of RODI. Dosed for 3 days.
-December 1-5 started to fight Cyano by cutting fish feedings (i did not feed the corals at all). I turned the lights off in the Refugium. Thinking back that was when I started to notice changes in some SPSs. One got skinny and some polyps retracted. One started looking brownish. One looking pale.
-December 7 added 13 SPSs to the DT.
-December 18 I added Kent Liquid Calcium and dosed Epsom Salt.
-December 19 Ultra Blue Tenuis was loosing tissue (peeling off). I added more Kalkwasser to ATO 1.9 teaspoon per 1g.
Went away for 2 nights. Came back. Cyano was gone. The water looked way to clear. All SPSs and Scolymia looked very bad.

 

[allabarton]

As far as being frustrated, well welcome to the SPS world!!

Thank you. I already figured that would be a part of my life now.