Please help Palytoxin Poisoning, Me, Wife and Dog.

[HolySmoke]

Yesterday I moved my tank 10 ft across the room and towards the end of the night my wife helped me put the last couple corals from the bottom of the brute into the tank.

Mind you first time in 10 years of being together her hands have touched saltwater.(I think) Fast forward 8 hours later and I'm waking both of us up with a nasty cough,stuffy nose, and post nasal drip. I woke up with the chills and felt sick. Couple hours later my dog throws up and I noticed he is taking short shallow breaths.

I hadn't connected the dots until I texted my wife that the dog threw up and she said her chest hurt. After hearing that 5he light bulb went off and I turned off the skimmer, opened all the windows and removed a couple Buckets with a couple inches of water in the bottom from the move.

Question is how long should I expect this to last? should we leave the house? my wife is the paranoid type so I told her what it could be but told her unlikely. From the symptoms we are having I am 100% confident it is palytoxin poisoning. My wife and I have both have Covid twice and the second time was only 45 days ago so that's out as a possibility.

Is it a safe assumption that the exposure has already happened and we have to just ride it out? I'm assuming this is the case but would love to hear from people with first hand experience. I want to note that my breathing is better and the dog is looking a little better but still breathing fast slight weezing. My wife is in bed with the dog and she is burning up(fever) and whining like a toddler. My oxygen tested at 100 wife 98.

Please help!!!!!

Thank you.

 

[HolySmoke]

Im surprised no ones asked this yet

Any chance you know all of the types of zoas/palys you have so that those with them can exercise more caution?

Too hard to say unfortunately, I have cinnamon Grandi, green death, purple death, and a couple other very large palyathoa. There are generic button polyps mixed in with the green deaths that I would bet big on because they were close to the Sunkist. My opinion is you can't say, with science you can't speculate. Treat all with caution is my advice. Who's to say my green paly is the same as yours although very likely. I will take a picture though anyway. All of my SPS were sliming up big time so it was all out war in my tank.

 

[arking_mark]

Dangerous Palys and Zoas are rare. However, the reefing community doesn't have a list of which ones are so its best to handle all of them with care.

Here is a nice article that dives into this...

The Dangers (and Myths) of Zoa Toxicity - Part 1 (reefs.com)

 

[LegendaryCG]

All this paly toxin hype is going to get palys ban in the hobby

better be careful

Just because it’s rare doesn’t mean it’s hype. Awareness and safety are important. If I had a pet tiger that acted like a kitten around me doesn‘t discount the fact that it could rip the head off my friend in the wrong situation.

 

[DucatiGtr]

Hello Everyone. This thread really concerns me as I have my nano reef tank in my 3 years old room themed with Nemo. He ocasiónally gets his hand in the water for the clown fish to nib at him. He fish knows him which is kind of cute. I have invested a lot in the thank as I fell in love with reefing .

it seems that paleotoxin is from handling the Zoas out of the water. Is the fish tank poisonous for having zoas ?

I highly doubt you will have any trouble... Just wash hands after

 

[LegendaryCG]

Hello Everyone. This thread really concerns me as I have my nano reef tank in my 3 years old room themed with Nemo. He ocasiónally gets his hand in the water for the clown fish to nib at him. He fish knows him which is kind of cute. I have invested a lot in the thank as I fell in love with reefing .

it seems that paleotoxin is from handling the Zoas out of the water. Is the fish tank poisonous for having zoas ?

I‘ve raised 4 kids, I don’t trust any of them until they hit 25.

 

[Revnobody]

I recently wrote an article on it as well. There are links to a few different studies within the article. https://aroundthereef.com/palytoxin/

 

[HolySmoke]

From personal experience I've handled most of my Palys and Zoas unsafely (prior to being aware of these issues) and never had an issue. So I consider the ones I have relatively safe.

That was my exact thinking and it is a flawed IMO . All it takes is one thing to tick of that paly badly, most likely reason unknown and with enough flow, surface agitation, and a big skimmer it will be airborne or atleast assume it can be. Could be placebo but when I turned my skimmer pump off and opened all the windows my wife and I felt some relief.

 

[Sarcazian]

I believe that everyone that walks into a reef store should be warned. I love these corals but for safety I would have gotten something else.

now I am stuck with a giant order from a sale that I cannot cancel ..

You can always look to trade them to a local reefer. IMHO, if you are even saying this it is not worth having them since you will always have a concern in the back of your head.

 

[Mellotang]

I think A lot of it is paranoia, hysteria attention. Who knows

I work in aquariums almost every day for 25 yrs n have been poisoned 5 times

how is it that every 3rd reefer here gets poisoned all the time

 

[HolySmoke]

All this paly toxin hype is going to get palys ban in the hobby

better be careful

I'm sorry but get outta here with that **** both your insensitivity and your dumb logic. How many new wild zoas blow you away? very few. How many awesome are passed around from collectors almost all.

 

[LegendaryCG]

I think A lot of it is paranoia, hysteria attention. Who knows

I work in aquariums almost every day for 25 yrs n have been poisoned 5 times

how is it that every 3rd reefer here gets poisoned all the time

this is not a helpful post. If I was a mod I’d remove it and give you a warning.

 

[Coralcitos]

I‘ve raised 4 kids, I don’t trust any of them until they hit 25.

 

[arking_mark]

That was my exact thinking and it is a flawed IMO . All it takes is one thing to tick of that paly badly, most likely reason unknown and with enough flow, surface agitation, and a big skimmer it will be airborne or atleast assume it can be. Could be placebo but when I turned my skimmer pump off and opened all the windows my wife and I felt some relief.

Again. See the article... I believe that the vast majority of Palys are safe and Zoas pose little to no issues. That's why I think it would benefit the community to identify those that may be an issue.

The Dangers (and Myths) of Zoa Toxicity - Part 1 (reefs.com)

 

[Revnobody]

Julian Sprung did an informative speech on palytoxin. After watching it, I have a theory that some of the unexplainable RTN we see in the hobby could be caused by palytoxin.

 

[Rmckoy]

How to know what coral or if the toxin is present in our system ?

not all have toxin and as said above it’s rare
Is there a way to irradiate once proven it’s been introduced ? Is there a way to test or know for sure the particular paly / zoa has toxin or do they all have it , takes stress to release them ?

 

[Bepis]

I think grandi’s are the likely suspect, I’ve heard they are the most poisonous/ likely to release palytoxin... though I could be wrong

 

[Sarcazian]

I think A lot of it is paranoia, hysteria attention. Who knows

I work in aquariums almost every day for 25 yrs n have been poisoned 5 times

how is it that every 3rd reefer here gets poisoned all the time

So, you've been poisoned 5 timed and kept doing the same thing? Plus, we see very few people reporting paly poisoning, but others chime in with their experiences to help others know they are not alone.

 

[Mellotang]

If you get paly toxin poisoning you know it pretty quick

usually within a few hrs
Aches
Chills
Fever
Respiring

might even poop your pants n pass out

it’s not a delayed thing

 

[DucatiGtr]

Mine was def from those large slimy blue green paly.
I was very Sick, felt like ice on my skin and I had multiple layers of clothes and blankets (and 80 out)
I went to the doc and I had extremely low blood pressure I couldn’t stand, I couldn't eat for 7 days, lungs were filled, they almost went into my lungs to clear them out..
this is the short version.. I still have zoas and so on, I’m careful and my hands are in the water daily.

 

[HolySmoke]

@arking_mark I already said I would ^. This is an important message. If we all had the mentality like @Mellotang who has been poisoned 5x and think it is no big deal we are doing all reef keepers a disservice. I always knew it was a risk while fragging and handling but this is a real risk while handling only and chemical warfare when it comes to corals protecting themselves.