Please Help - Slowly receding and unhappy corals

[mikeytrw]

Hi All,

I really hope you can help me, I've noticed that over the last two months my LPS corals have all started to recede and a lot of my euphylia are not extending polyps like they used to. They are barely coming 'out' and some have receded all the way back to the skeleton. They used to have thick tissue running halfway down the skeleton and big lush colourful polyps. I've also noticed my torch colours are much more muted.

Soft corals seem to be OK, but I've noticed Zoa's not being as enthusiastic as normal.

Up until about a month ago everything had been awesome, corals growing, crazy polyp extension etc.

The Tank: My tank is 11 months old and is a Reefer 250. It is stocked with hammers, frogs, torches zoos, lobo, and 3 tiny frags of SPS that my LFS threw in for free.


Parameters:
I have sent an ICP test and am awaiting results.

I test dKH, PO4, NO3, every few days with Hanna, and Calc and Mag every week with Red Sea pro. All results are logged in pocket marine app.

My dKH is currently 8.8, NO3: 6.8, PO4: 0.1, Calc: 415, Mag: 1400. Salinity: 33.7ppt.

Nutrients usually fluctuate a bit, NO3 is usually between 2 and 6, PO4 is usually between 0.01 and 0.06. PO4 is a little higher now than normal, but given that is such a recent test I doubt that's a factor.

The only thing I can point to, is a dKH increase about 2 months ago my dKH increased from where it had been stable at 8.3 to 8.8. Instead of lowering it again I just held it at 8.8 figuring stability is better than swing.

So, do you think that dkH increase could cause this? and if so, should I lower it again or hold steady?

I'm so disheartened, I've battled Cyano and Dinos already and am so deep into this in terms of effort and money I really don't want to fail before my first year in the hobby.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Dave1993]

get nitrates up to 10-15

only thing i can think of

 

[Nano sapiens]

Hi All,

I really hope you can help me, I've noticed that over the last two months my LPS corals have all started to recede and a lot of my euphylia are not extending polyps like they used to. They are barely coming 'out' and some have receded all the way back to the skeleton. They used to have thick tissue running halfway down the skeleton and big lush colourful polyps. I've also noticed my torch colours are much more muted.

Soft corals seem to be OK, but I've noticed Zoa's not being as enthusiastic as normal.

Up until about a month ago everything had been awesome, corals growing, crazy polyp extension etc.

The Tank: My tank is 11 months old and is a Reefer 250. It is stocked with hammers, frogs, torches zoos, lobo, and 3 tiny frags of SPS that my LFS threw in for free.


Parameters:
I have sent an ICP test and am awaiting results.

I test dKH, PO4, NO3, every few days with Hanna, and Calc and Mag every week with Red Sea pro. All results are logged in pocket marine app.

My dKH is currently 8.8, NO3: 6.8, PO4: 0.1, Calc: 415, Mag: 1400. Salinity: 33.7ppt.

Nutrients usually fluctuate a bit, NO3 is usually between 2 and 6, PO4 is usually between 0.01 and 0.06. PO4 is a little higher now than normal, but given that is such a recent test I doubt that's a factor.

The only thing I can point to, is a dKH increase about 2 months ago my dKH increased from where it had been stable at 8.3 to 8.8. Instead of lowering it again I just held it at 8.8 figuring stability is better than swing.

So, do you think that dkH increase could cause this? and if so, should I lower it again or hold steady?

I'm so disheartened, I've battled Cyano and Dinos already and am so deep into this in terms of effort and money I really don't want to fail before my first year in the hobby.

Thanks in advance!

All righty then, let's see if we can figure out the issue(s).

dKh at 8.8 is fine and would not be a problem. Considering the rest of your parameters, nothing really stands out to me as so odd or unusual that it would cause a severe decline of a reef system.

11 months in the system should be trending towards stable. Did you start with all dry rock? If so, have you added microorganism diversity?

Often the result of more subtle changes in a system show up 2-3 weeks in the future. Anything at all unusual happen about a month ago that might point to the decline you're seeing?

Have you checked for any metallic contaminants like a screw falling in, corrosion from a pump, etc.? I had some strange issues many years back and found a rusty fish hook in my sand bed and to this day I run a magnet through my system at least yearly 'just in case'.

1. A full photo of the aquarium and of some of the affected corals would be helpful.
2. What is your water change schedule, salt/water makeup and percentage changed?
3. What type of filtration method(s)?
4. What is the temperature and is it stable?
5. Do you spot feed your LPS? (if so, how often?)

 

[mikeytrw]

Thanks so much for helping!

11 months in the system should be trending towards stable. Did you start with all dry rock? If so, have you added microorganism diversity?

Dry rock and microorganism diversity was a big thing for when I was dealing with dinos so I have over time added mature rock from other systems and multiple bacteria strains and also Aqua-forest Life Source (Fiji Mud) which I dose as per instructions. The tank has a tonne of micro critters, and has been periodically restocked with pods.

Often the result of more subtle changes in a system show up 2-3 weeks in the future. Anything at all unusual happen about a month ago that might point to the decline you're seeing?

Not that I can think of, I've been racking my Brian trying to think of any change or anything worrying. I did have a phosphate spike about 3 months ago, but it was brief and I dealt with it slowly and gradually.

I have started seeing cyanobacteria and dinos on the sand bed, the dinos appear to be Prorocentrum and Coolia, I've added a photo below. I was trying not to overly worry about these as I've defeated dinos before and had not seen/heard of any negative effects on corals. I'm running fresh carbon in case of any toxins.

Have you checked for any metallic contaminants like a screw falling in, corrosion from a pump, etc.? I had some strange issues many years back and found a rusty fish hook in my sand bed and to this day I run a magnet through my system at least yearly 'just in case'.

I have just checked the sump and sandbed, cannot find anything. Hopefully if there is something corroding it will show up in the ICP test, I just wish they didn't take so long.

1. A full photo of the aquarium and of some of the affected corals would be helpful.

Here is some cyan/dinos that have appeared recently.

2. What is your water change schedule, salt/water makeup and percentage changed?

10% per week, Red Sea Blue Bucket and RODI with TDS meter, 0TDS.
3. What type of filtration method(s)?

Filter socks. I have a skimmer but I don't use it because it's loud and I don't have many fish so bioload is low.

4. What is the temperature and is it stable?

24.9C - 25.5C depending where you measure and is rock solid. D-D controller with titanium heater (recently replaced out of precaution)

5. Do you spot feed your LPS? (if so, how often?)

Every week or so. Mixture of Reef Roids and frozen Mysis and lobster eggs.

 

[jabberwock]

Tank is relatively young and PACKED SOLID. Slow and steady wins the race.

 

[mikeytrw]

Tank is relatively young and PACKED SOLID. Slow and steady wins the race.

Thanks for your input.

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

get nitrates up to 10-15

only thing i can think of

Give em some of your 200+ lol jk

 

[Garf]

Do you see your clown fish annoying the affected corals?
Don’t suppose you’ve got a filefish?

 

[Nano sapiens]

We all have our reef keeping 'methods' and I'm a hands-on maintenance type. So I'm eyeing what looks like a rather dirty sand bed with suspicion. Do you vacuum it at all? I've always found that removing detritus/organics from the system helps to reduce or eliminate cyano blooms and in general perks the system up.

I'd be careful using too much carbon too aggressively. Besides adsorbing organics, it also makes the water clearer which can cause coral light shock if it wasn't used prior.

 

[mikeytrw]

We all have our reef keeping 'methods' and I'm a hands-on maintenance type. So I'm eyeing what looks like a rather dirty sand bed with suspicion. Do you vacuum it at all? I've always found that removing detritus/organics from the system helps to reduce or eliminate cyano blooms and in general perks the system up.

I'd be careful using too much carbon too aggressively. Besides adsorbing organics, it also makes the water clearer which can cause coral light shock if it wasn't used prior.

Thanks,

The sand is reasonable dirty but that's mostly algae growth, it does get turned over a lot by pistol shrimp, nessarious snails , conch etc.

The clowns are hosting on one of the hammers but there's def much more going on than that.

I'm thinking I will do a 20% water change tomorrow and install my oversized UV, perhaps the dinos are releasing enough toxins. Only other thing I can think of is some sort of pollutant or metal in the water - hopefully ICP test will reveal.

 

[olonmv]

Is it mainly just your euphyllia that seem upset?

 

[mikeytrw]

Is it mainly just your euphyllia that seem upset?

No, trumpet coral, Lobo and other LPS. Zoas seem grumpy too.

 

[olonmv]

No, trumpet coral, Lobo and other LPS. Zoas seem grumpy too.

almost sounds like the onset of a bacterial infection.

Keep an eye on the Euphyllia. BJD takes over fast and kills fast. If you can get some cipro and have on hand it be a good idea. Full tank treatment with cipro is ok to do, I’ve done it before.

 

[mikeytrw]

OK, I did a 37.5% WC yesterday and am going to cautiously say things look a little bit better. Wil do another 20% WC later tonight and keep going.

I've also lowered the lights by a few %, as I had been slowly raising them (by about 1% per week) to enable me to keep a some SPS at the top of the scape, I will slowly reverse this.

 

[MartinM]

Tank is relatively young and PACKED SOLID. Slow and steady wins the race.

I don’t think it’s even close, in one of my systems my corals have grown so much I can barely see any rock, and are constantly warring for space, so I don’t think this is a barrier to healthy corals. That being said, I alway use 100% live rock, which is fundamentally and completely different than a reef aquarium that didn’t.

Are you running carbon? If not, try it. If so, how often are you replacing it? Allelopathy in LPS and softies especially is a thing. I notice everything starts to look grumpy in my overgrown system if I’m not diligent about carbon replacement. I do about 100g replaced weekly in a 200L system.

Are you feeding enough? How about aminos? You have a lot of hungry corals. I feed about 35 mL per day of a custom food mix I make from about 6 freeze dried brands plus Phyto plus Red Sea AB+ Plus Selcon Per 200L. Feeding is really important. My system has oodles of various bivalves and sponges, tunicates, tubeworms, etc from all the food, plus the corals are getting a lot.

Hope this helps!

 

[mikeytrw]

I don’t think it’s even close, in one of my systems my corals have grown so much I can barely see any rock, and are constantly warring for space, so I don’t think this is a barrier to healthy corals. That being said, I alway use 100% live rock, which is fundamentally and completely different than a reef aquarium that didn’t.

Are you running carbon? If not, try it. If so, how often are you replacing it? Allelopathy in LPS and softies especially is a thing. I notice everything starts to look grumpy in my overgrown system if I’m not diligent about carbon replacement. I do about 100g replaced weekly in a 200L system.

Are you feeding enough? How about aminos? You have a lot of hungry corals. I feed about 35 mL per day of a custom food mix I make from about 6 freeze dried brands plus Phyto plus Red Sea AB+ Plus Selcon Per 200L. Feeding is really important. My system has oodles of various bivalves and sponges, tunicates, tubeworms, etc from all the food, plus the corals are getting a lot.

Hope this helps!

Thanks,

I run carbon but don't refresh weekly, perhaps monthly but I have changed just a few days ago.

I feed although I rotate between meaty frozen (mysis, lobster eggs, red plankton) and reef roids and Red Sea AB+ (I've cut down on the Red Sea aminos as it's food for dinos)

 

[Shirak]

OK, I did a 37.5% WC yesterday and am going to cautiously say things look a little bit better. Wil do another 20% WC later tonight and keep going.

I've also lowered the lights by a few %, as I had been slowly raising them (by about 1% per week) to enable me to keep a some SPS at the top of the scape, I will slowly reverse this.

33.7ppt salinity is low
What are your par readings? Slowly receding corals says to me they are slowly starving and if nutrients are water parameters are good then probably a light level issue. Your low salinity though will stress the corals and hinder calcification so that could be part of it.

 

[Glenner’sreef]

Hi Mike, Sorry you’re going through this. I appreciate some of the varied possible problems and solutions on this post. Thinking outside the box has sometimes produced results. Here’s one that hasn’t been touched on as yet. Do you periodically have home maintenance people: maids, bugs guys, interior home construction, wife, kids, you etc. spraying toxic chemicals around or near the tank? Quick example: A family had a home, a 45 or so gallon tank. Two 7+ years old large Percula clowns. Their new English Sheepdog puppy decided to use the rug in the aquarium room as a toilet. The owners got a cleaning crew in to both clean up the rug and spray the room. The very next day the two clowns were dead. They had a skimmer on their tank which I’m sure accelerated the problem, bringing more toxic air into the tank. Fish and corals are in my experience pretty tough, resilient creatures but in a small confined glass box we have to be careful of the air that they breathe or what lands on the water’s surface. Again consider everything that is being sprayed around your tank. Good luck.

 

[MartinM]

Hi Mike, Sorry you’re going through this. I appreciate some of the varied possible problems and solutions on this post. Thinking outside the box has sometimes produced results. Here’s one that hasn’t been touched on as yet. Do you periodically have home maintenance people: maids, bugs guys, interior home construction, wife, kids, you etc. spraying toxic chemicals around or near the tank? Quick example: A family had a home, a 45 or so gallon tank. Two 7+ years old large Percula clowns. Their new English Sheepdog puppy decided to use the rug in the aquarium room as a toilet. The owners got a cleaning crew in to both clean up the rug and spray the room. The very next day the two clowns were dead. They had a skimmer on their tank which I’m sure accelerated the problem, bringing more toxic air into the tank. Fish and corals are in my experience pretty tough, resilient creatures but in a small confined glass box we have to be careful of the air that they breathe or what lands on the water’s surface. Again consider everything that is being sprayed around your tank. Good luck.

True, a caretaker did something similar and killed a puffer I’d had for years

 

[MartinM]

Thanks,

I run carbon but don't refresh weekly, perhaps monthly but I have changed just a few days ago.

I feed although I rotate between meaty frozen (mysis, lobster eggs, red plankton) and reef roids and Red Sea AB+ (I've cut down on the Red Sea aminos as it's food for dinos)

Sounds good but Dino’s could indicate a less than desireable amount of biodiversity. You might also consider adding some fresh live rock for more biodiversity. I also agree that they seem to be allelopathic to some degree, chemically impacting corals.