Please please help Valentini Puffer

[Lovelyfish]

My valentini usually wakes before the lights go on in the morning. This morning she was still asleep and slow to wake. The urchin was on the rock that she usually sleeps on so she was sleeping in a slightly different spot and was slow to wake. I then noticed she seemed bloated- not puffed. She colored up after she woke up and can swim ok, but she has been lethargic and didn't eat. I tried a deshelled pea, but she won't eat.
She is sitting at bottom of tank against the glass and breathing appears slightly labored.

Water parameters are good, but Sundays are usually water change day. I am just waiting for water to get to temp and will do that next.

Please please please help

I have done a bunch of research and the only success stories I am finding are from peas or just letting their fish rest. I haven't, so far found any success stories using epsom salt.
has anyone had luck with epsom salts?
... I am more than willing to try any and everything, but also don't want to add stress needlessly... I don't know what to do.
Does it look like bloat? Constipation?
There hasn't been any changes or new fish. Newest was urchin and bumblebee snails a few months ago.

 

[fishguy242]

Welcome to the reef ...
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[Lovelyfish]

Thank you so much! She is the best fish and it's so hard to see her so uncomfortable.
Really appreciate your help

 

[Sharkbait19]

A video would help to better see the problem.
Epsom salt is generally better for freshwater fish.

 

[Lovelyfish]

A video would help to better see the problem.
Epsom salt is generally better for freshwater fish.

Thank you posting video.
Apologies for dirty glass- deep clean is on Sundays
She has been in that same Spot - same demeanor for last hour.

 

[Lovelyfish]

A video would help to better see the problem.
Epsom salt is generally better for freshwater fish.

I posted video, but don't see it in thread now. Can you let me know if you see it?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

My valentini usually wakes before the lights go on in the morning. This morning she was still asleep and slow to wake. The urchin was on the rock that she usually sleeps on so she was sleeping in a slightly different spot and was slow to wake. I then noticed she seemed bloated- not puffed. She colored up after she woke up and can swim ok, but she has been lethargic and didn't eat. I tried a deshelled pea, but she won't eat.
She is sitting at bottom of tank against the glass and breathing appears slightly labored.

Water parameters are good, but Sundays are usually water change day. I am just waiting for water to get to temp and will do that next.

Please please please help

I have done a bunch of research and the only success stories I am finding are from peas or just letting their fish rest. I haven't, so far found any success stories using epsom salt.
has anyone had luck with epsom salts?
... I am more than willing to try any and everything, but also don't want to add stress needlessly... I don't know what to do.
Does it look like bloat? Constipation?
There hasn't been any changes or new fish. Newest was urchin and bumblebee snails a few months ago.

Hi, welcome to Reef2Reef!

Epsom salts and peas are both freshwater remedies and don't work in marine fish. Both are also directed towards constipation, and as you pointed out, this fish is bloated. That is called edema and is a general condition related to the fish not being able to osmoregulate - maintain its bodily fluids with the seawater it is swimming in. There are a variety of causes for this - generally related to kidney or liver failure. The rapid breathing means the issue is systemic - involving the fish's entire body.

The second photo shows some odd black spots on the belly, as well as some faint indication of mucus coming off of the fish's snout. I wonder if this fish also has flukes? I don't know if flukes can also cause edema, or if there are two unrelated problems going on here. If it is flukes, a 5 minute FW dip might provide some temporary relief, but it could also kill the fish if the flukes are really heavy.

Sorry, I don't think this will end well for the puffer - are there any other fish in the tank? If so, are they showing any symptoms?

Jay

 

[Lovelyfish]

I turned down one of the wavemakers.
I didn't know if turning the lights off might help or if its better to just keep things typical and calm...
Here is what she usually looks like

Hi, welcome to Reef2Reef!

Epsom salts and peas are both freshwater remedies and don't work in marine fish. Both are also directed towards constipation, and as you pointed out, this fish is bloated. That is called edema and is a general condition related to the fish not being able to osmoregulate - maintain its bodily fluids with the seawater it is swimming in. There are a variety of causes for this - generally related to kidney or liver failure. The rapid breathing means the issue is systemic - involving the fish's entire body.

The second photo shows some odd black spots on the belly, as well as some faint indication of mucus coming off of the fish's snout. I wonder if this fish also has flukes? I don't know if flukes can also cause edema, or if there are two unrelated problems going on here. If it is flukes, a 5 minute FW dip might provide some temporary relief, but it could also kill the fish if the flukes are really heavy.

Sorry, I don't think this will end well for the puffer - are there any other fish in the tank? If so, are they showing any symptoms?

Jay

Thank you so much for your reply.
Yes all other fish and invertsare acting, eating, swimming normally.
I have had her for over 2 years without any health issues.
No changes.
Good water parameters, but I am bringing water to temp to do water change.

 

[Lovelyfish]

Hi, welcome to Reef2Reef!

Epsom salts and peas are both freshwater remedies and don't work in marine fish. Both are also directed towards constipation, and as you pointed out, this fish is bloated. That is called edema and is a general condition related to the fish not being able to osmoregulate - maintain its bodily fluids with the seawater it is swimming in. There are a variety of causes for this - generally related to kidney or liver failure. The rapid breathing means the issue is systemic - involving the fish's entire body.

The second photo shows some odd black spots on the belly, as well as some faint indication of mucus coming off of the fish's snout. I wonder if this fish also has flukes? I don't know if flukes can also cause edema, or if there are two unrelated problems going on here. If it is flukes, a 5 minute FW dip might provide some temporary relief, but it could also kill the fish if the flukes are really heavy.

Sorry, I don't think this will end well for the puffer - are there any other fish in the tank? If so, are they showing any symptoms?

Jay

thank you for all of your help. I don't know if picture distorted or if i am just not seeing it, but can not see mucus. I haven't ever seen any flukes on her- not to say she doesn't have them.
Is there anything else I could do for the edema?
I really appreciate all if your help. She is the best fish and I want to do any thing I can for her

 

[Lovelyfish]

Hi, welcome to Reef2Reef!

Epsom salts and peas are both freshwater remedies and don't work in marine fish. Both are also directed towards constipation, and as you pointed out, this fish is bloated. That is called edema and is a general condition related to the fish not being able to osmoregulate - maintain its bodily fluids with the seawater it is swimming in. There are a variety of causes for this - generally related to kidney or liver failure. The rapid breathing means the issue is systemic - involving the fish's entire body.

The second photo shows some odd black spots on the belly, as well as some faint indication of mucus coming off of the fish's snout. I wonder if this fish also has flukes? I don't know if flukes can also cause edema, or if there are two unrelated problems going on here. If it is flukes, a 5 minute FW dip might provide some temporary relief, but it could also kill the fish if the flukes are really heavy.

Sorry, I don't think this will end well for the puffer - are there any other fish in the tank? If so, are they showing any symptoms?

Jay

I found a post from humblefish recommending steroids to treat edema- but it was in a post about velvet, so I am not sure if applicable in this situation. Does anyone know of steroid treatment for puffer?

This is taken from humblefish post:
"
Edema reduction: Steroids

Just like giving a shot in the knee - it helps to reduce the swelling.

- Intramuscular dexamethasone with an estimated dose of 1-2 mg/kg into the muscle on the side of the dorsal ridge. (impossible to be precise in small fish)

I sounds difficult but it is not. A tuberculin syringe with a 27 gauge needle to draw up the solution and a 30 gauge needle to inject.

Following the above protocol, I have witnessed more than a couple of fish recover from assured demise.

I also recommend treating with chloroquine. Formalin unfortunately is an irritant and theoretically could worsen the gill edema.

BTW - the same protocol can be use with ICH."

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I found a post from humblefish recommending steroids to treat edema- but it was in a post about velvet, so I am not sure if applicable in this situation. Does anyone know of steroid treatment for puffer?

This is taken from humblefish post:
"
Edema reduction: Steroids

Just like giving a shot in the knee - it helps to reduce the swelling.

- Intramuscular dexamethasone with an estimated dose of 1-2 mg/kg into the muscle on the side of the dorsal ridge. (impossible to be precise in small fish)

I sounds difficult but it is not. A tuberculin syringe with a 27 gauge needle to draw up the solution and a 30 gauge needle to inject.

Following the above protocol, I have witnessed more than a couple of fish recover from assured demise.

I also recommend treating with chloroquine. Formalin unfortunately is an irritant and theoretically could worsen the gill edema.

BTW - the same protocol can be use with ICH."

I’ve never tried that, but it won’t cure the fish of the issue, only temporarily mediate the symptoms.
Jay

 

[Lovelyfish]

I’ve never tried that, but it won’t cure the fish of the issue, only temporarily mediate the symptoms.
Jay

ThNk you so much Jay- I don't know what would be causing the edema... I am just at a loss. Nothing is working
Thank you for all of your advice and help!

 

[Lovelyfish]

She passed away about an hour ago. She had been resting an then suddenly started swimming irradically. She could no longer swim against the current, so I lightly held her in a less turbulent area.
Thank you everyone for all of your help

 

[JC1977]

Sorry to hear about the puffer. I have two in my tank a porc and a blue spot. You get attached to them pretty fast with their dog like personality. Anyhow people that don’t keep fish like us don’t get the attachment and disappointment when we lose one. Best wishes!

 

[Lovelyfish]

Sorry to hear about the puffer. I have two in my tank a porc and a blue spot. You get attached to them pretty fast with their dog like personality. Anyhow people that don’t keep fish like us don’t get the attachment and disappointment when we lose one. Best wishes!

Thank you, I can't stop crying. They really are the best. She would always follow me around the tank and was so aware at all times. I'm really going to miss her.
Thank you for your kind words. Hope the best for you and your fish