Please remember that sellers on R2R are NOT allowed to ask for unprotected forms of payment (PP friends & family, unprotected Venmo payment, etc.)

[vetteguy53081]

Well if this is the most swift kick in the pants I've ever read. PayPal is not the end all be all of payment methods. Scaring people into believing that their life savings is going to possibly be taken, simply because others do not use pay pall is not a proper protection practice IMO. its promoting fear and distrust. Im an honest man always have been an I personally feel that being labeled as a potential crimnal simply because I use other forms of payments. Is also unfair an unjust. Millions of people use these group prohibited payment methods. Again IMO Yall need to get with the times and start using a washing machine instead of going to the river to wash your clothes. As for pay pal protecting us. That's not true either the very first transaction I had in this group, I used PayPal for the first time ever, I mailed off my item after the transaction was done via pay pal., got an email via this group from the buyer saying the item was great. PayPal starts calling me months later and said they filed a dispute and I failed to respond to it.. I NEVER KNEW ABOUT IT CAUSE I DONT USE IT or check check emails regularly In the end they got their money back an my lights. and PayPal is billing me.. im srry but pay pal is not the best money transfer method out there. Yall do nothing for seller protection.

No one is saying its the best but it is the most protected method available to us. There is Chase Pay, Zelle, etc but there is also no refund for fraud or item not recieved or received damaged.
No one is scaring anyone but rather saying " PROTECT YOURSELF".
Any other methods - the potential to never get an item or refund is then high

 

[SoftballReefer]

I think perhaps you meant "PayPal" rather than "Facebook"?

We've looked into this a little further, and it seems this is not a new policy from PayPal, so nothing should be changing. As people have already been selling and using PayPal, it seems they're fine to continue to do so. If PayPal were to ask this of you for selling coral, (based on what I've read) I think you could probably simply provide a statement that you are selling corals grown in your saltwater aquarium and do not have a supplier as this is not a resale transaction. I'm not an expert on this, so I encourage you to do your own due diligence. As of now, I'm not aware of anyone who has had any issues related to this policy.

Btw, Facebook has a strict policy against selling live animals, so Facebook groups participating in this are in violation of Facebook's policies and in danger of being shut down (many FB groups already have been shut down for this reason), so I don't recommend moving to FB groups for selling.

I did mean PayPal. I've been selling for reef stuff and baseball softball stuff for a long time and have never seen this request of my receipt where I got the item from. I do not sell live stock.

 

[Daniel@R2R]

I did mean PayPal. I've been selling for reef stuff and baseball softball stuff for a long time and have never seen this request of my receipt where I got the item from. I do not sell live stock.

Yeah. I would just tell them it's a used item that you are selling from your personal aquarium and that you don't have a supplier.

 

[SoftballReefer]

it seems some send a letter saying I do not have a receipt for this item as it is a used item I bought long ago. so hopefully that works cause if not approved it claims your PayPal is deactivated

 

[ColoredRock]

R2R is right.. they have to limit what they allow on their site.. otherwise they have a liability as well. For example.. You pay for something in the market place .. you get ripped of and then claim that they are culpable for the monetary damage casue to you.

They need to limit their liability as soon as they are made aware of it.

 

[nashvillian]

R2R is right.. they have to limit what they allow on their site.. otherwise they have a liability as well. For example.. You pay for something in the market place .. you get ripped of and then claim that they are culpable for the monetary damage casue to you.

They need to limit their liability as soon as they are made aware of it.

This is true to a point, but also recognizing that 80% of your user base would cease to exist if you didn’t have a Marketplace leads you to have some culpability in the situation. Especially concerning with some older accounts being compromised, which is usually a good faith sign that a seller is reputable. The only liability that R2R has is their reputation as a marketplace.

 

[ColoredRock]

This is true to a point, but also recognizing that 80% of your user base would cease to exist if you didn’t have a Marketplace leads you to have some culpability in the situation. Especially concerning with some older accounts being compromised, which is usually a good faith sign that a seller is reputable.

SO true... and I dont blame the for trying to mitigate their exposure. Tracing back payments is a good thing for them.. Yes will some move on to other platforms.. possible... Lots of exposure also thou for R2R.

I commend them for the track they are taking.. good for you R2R

 

[nashvillian]

SO true... and I dont blame the for trying to mitigate their exposure. Tracing back payments is a good thing for them.. Yes will some move on to other platforms.. possible... Lots of exposure also thou for R2R.

I commend them for the track they are taking.. good for you R2R

Clever girl. I meant Reef2Reef has to take some culpability. You can’t reap the benefits of using a marketplace to buffer your user base, and remove yourself from indemnification of said users when they are defrauded because of a compromised account. Tbh the secure transaction method only works when the old message boards are taken down. You can’t receive compensation from a generated bank card that dumps the funds the second they’re transferred.

 

[ColoredRock]

Clever girl. I meant Reef2Reef has to take some culpability. You can’t reap the benefits of using a marketplace to buffer your user base, and remove yourself from indemnification of said users when they are defrauded because of a compromised account. Tbh the secure transaction method only works when the old message boards are taken down. You can’t receive compensation from a generated bank card that dumps the funds the second they’re transferred.

you sound like a litigator. *** for tat is not my game.

 

[nashvillian]

you sound like a litigator. *** for tat is not my game.

Looks like it was only one post ago

 

[cghunter39]

Hey everyone, as a reminder, sellers are NOT allowed to ask buyers to send payment as a gift (either via the Paypal Friends and Family option, Venmo, Western Union, or any other option that negates buyer protection). Any sellers who are shown to be asking for payment in these forms may lose their ability to access the marketplace at all.

Buyers, please beware of any requests to send payment in these ways. This is a large forum, and while most transactions are carried out with no issues, you should never gift money to anyone you do not know personally. Sending payment as a gift removes any protection available to you through the payment services you utilize.

Here's some tips everyone should read before buying or selling online: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/watch-out-before-buying-or-selling.201631/

Also, here are our selling forum rules: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/selling-trading-forum-rules-please-read-before-posting.115471/

I just want people to be aware there Venmo now offers buyer protects just like PayPal. After all PayPal owned venmo

 

[Daniel@R2R]

I just want people to be aware there Venmo now offers buyer protects just like PayPal. After all PayPal owned venmo

Yes, and that would be acceptable. It's new, and we need to update our policy to reflect that Venmo payments are allowable within our terms/rules as long as Buyer Protection is selected.

 

[vtecintegra]

In a way, I disagree with this rule from a seller's point of view. A new member with no posts ask to buy something I have for sale. There's no way I'm going to sell as goods and services, and give his person the ability to file a complaint with paypal and steal my money back. If they are willing to waive their protection, and are legit, then there should be no restriction on using friends and family. The rule is giving the buyer 100% of the protection, and putting the seller at a disadvantage with a questionable buyer.

 

[Daniel@R2R]

In a way, I disagree with this rule from a seller's point of view. A new member with no posts ask to buy something I have for sale. There's no way I'm going to sell as goods and services, and give his person the ability to file a complaint with paypal and steal my money back. If they are willing to waive their protection, and are legit, then there should be no restriction on using friends and family. The rule is giving the buyer 100% of the protection, and putting the seller at a disadvantage with a questionable buyer.

You are not required as a seller to sell to anyone you feel uncomfortable selling to. So, please don't ever sell to anyone you feel has too few posts or that you generally feel unsure about selling to. The rule on R2R is in line with Paypal's rules. The cost of Paypal's fees is part of the cost of doing business with their service and bypassing that fee in order to save on cost or to avoid protection of the transaction is against Paypal's rules. Also, Paypal's arbitration does not automatically rule in favor of the buyer. No buyer should ever send money without protection for any goods over the internet unless they personally know and trust the seller.

I should also point out that we had to instate this rule after a number of scammers had attempted to steal money from members of our community by falsely advertising products they didn't even have. Thus, we began to require sellers to only sell using forms of payment that offer arbitration/buyer's protection. While as a general rule, we try to stay out of seller/buyer disputes, we as the R2R staff want to be sure we do everything we can to protect members of our community.

 

[Daniel@R2R]

UPDATE: Venmo now offers payment protection, but it has to be selected for each transaction (the buyer has to click the button to turn it on). R2R does recognize and allow payments to be requested through Venmo with buyer's protection turned on.

This protection is similar to Paypal's buyer protection although IME takes longer to arbitrate than Paypal does (it took about a month in a recent transaction I had to deal with).

I have updated the original post in this thread to reflect this update.

 

[Frozen Tundra Reef Dreams]

ive bought a dozen things in the $thousands lately on here. everyone has asked for friends and family.

Aftger negotiating a price!!! so then if i want protection i have to pay more!!!

 

[Daniel@R2R]

ive bought a dozen things in the $thousands lately on here. everyone has asked for friends and family.

Aftger negotiating a price!!! so then if i want protection i have to pay more!!!

Please report anyone who does this. Due to danger of scammers using F&F as a way to steal money from members of our community, we take this rule very seriously.

Fair warning to anyone caught violating this rule... it can result in loss of selling privileges on Reef2Reef.

 

[kschweer]

ive bought a dozen things in the $thousands lately on here. everyone has asked for friends and family.

Aftger negotiating a price!!! so then if i want protection i have to pay more!!!

Report it and we will message them and shut down their sales threads if need be.

 

[Frozen Tundra Reef Dreams]

Please report anyone who does this. Due to danger of scammers using F&F as a way to steal money from members of our community, we take this rule very seriously.

Fair warning to anyone caught violating this rule... it can result in loss of selling privileges on Reef2Reef.

its not just scammers, its regular dudes on here trying to save the $. i bought $1500 worth of lights and after negotiating down, im told to pay friends and family. and Im like no! what if it gets lost in mail, or you rip me off? so then they raised the price and would no longer honor deal.

4-5 purchases, every single one asked for this. might be a good time for a reminder thread, not adding to this sticky

also, when i try to post a sale ad, it asks again which category and selling drygoods isnt listed. just trading. ill start in selling forum, click on post new thread, fill out all the info and then get asked again.

 

[Daniel@R2R]

its not just scammers, its regular dudes on here trying to save the $. i bought $1500 worth of lights and after negotiating down, im told to pay friends and family. and Im like no! what if it gets lost in mail, or you rip me off? so then they raised the price and would no longer honor deal.

4-5 purchases, every single one asked for this. might be a good time for a reminder thread, not adding to this sticky

also, when i try to post a sale ad, it asks again which category and selling drygoods isnt listed. just trading. ill start in selling forum, click on post new thread, fill out all the info and then get asked again.

I can do that, but you should also report the message where they did this to you. It's a violation of our rules to ask for unprotected forms of payment. And as I said, we take this rule seriously.