Plumbing my first sump - 80g display, 45g sump, single corner Herbie overflow - help wanted!

[adittam]

So, despite all of my love for my current canister filter system, I've decided to bite the bullet and learn how to use a sump as I upgrade from a 46g display to an 80g display. I couldn't source a new Seapora 80g low-boy tank anywhere, and Seapora told me they aren't currently manufacturing them because of COVID supply problems, but I did find a used Deep Blue 80g low-boy tank in great shape locally. The catch is, it's a reef-ready tank... I know I could put plugs in the holes, but since it came with a glass 45 gallon sump also, I've decided to take the plunge and go with a sump system.

My plan so far is to use the two holes in the corner overflow to plumb a Herbie overflow as shown here, with the primary drain using the 3/4" bulkhead and the emergency standpipe using the 1" bulkhead, and then plumb the return line over the top of the DT.

My main goal for the entire setup is redundancy and fail-safes to prevent floods. The setup will be in my living room, and one of my biggest hesitancies to using a sump at all was because I *really* don't want water damage to my home. As an aside, I know all of the stability reasons to use an ATO, but I'm hesitant to get one because of the inherent risk of flood associated with it. I would like to plumb in an in-line UV sterilizer, most likely off the return pump, with gate valves before the UV sterilizer and on the bypass so I can tune the flow to each of them appropriately.

All I've purchased besides the used DT, sump, and stand so far are a new pair of bulkheads and an Eheim 1262 AC return pump (rated for 900 gph).

If anyone has time to guide me through this plumbing, or even better, to draw me a detailed diagram of the plumbing setup to build with my 45g sump (pictured below...I can take any measurements that would be helpful), I would greatly appreciate it! Thanks in advance!

 

[TexanCanuck]

Congrats on your upgrade!

Here are my thoughts ... if they make sense to you I can throw them in a sketch.

1) Use the 1" line for your primary drain and the 3/4" line for the emergency. That will increase the flowcrate you can get through the sump if you need it (you can always throttle the drain line down, but you can't increase it once it's plumbed!)

2) The Herbie overflow works great, but can be a little tricky to "tune" in order to eliminate noise. The key here is to get the emergency standpipe to be as close as possible to the height of the Weir

3) on the diagram you show for the Herbie overflow, you see a ball valve to throttle the primary drain line ... don't do that ... ball valves are lousy at throttling flow and will make more noise ... get a GATE VALVE ... much better control and much less noise

4) You need to think about mechanical filtration in your sump ... are you going to use socks, or a fleece roll? You need to choose as this will be the only complication to the plumbing ... figuring out how to get water into the sump in such a way that it doesn't make a lot of splashing noise. Personally, I'd go for any one of the fleece rollers (I hate socks) ... that will dictate how you run the drain line into the sump

5) It's hard to see in your pictures, but check the bulkheads inside that sump ... other than the compartment with the float switch, I don't see a good bubble trap which is important. Do you plan to put the return pump in the compartment where the float switch is? Since you are so concerned about leaks that wouldn't be my first choice ... I'd want to seal that compartment carefully to the outside

6) since you are thinking about UV later, my advice would be to go with TWO return pumps ... for two reasons: (A) you get redundancy ... your return pump is the heartbeat of your system, so if one fails, the other keeps the tank limping along until you can fix it, (B) UV systems need to be selected to EITHER kill parasites or algae (they require different flow rates to do each) ... go with two smaller UV lights - one connected to the discharge of each pump - and us variable speed DC pumps and you can tune the discharge rate from each pump to get proper sterilization for both! You then just need to run the return lines separately into the display tank (DO NOT combine them!)

Anyway ... let me know if this makes sense to you and I can throw together a quick sketch

 

[adittam]

Congrats on your upgrade!

Here are my thoughts ... if they make sense to you I can throw them in a sketch.

1) Use the 1" line for your primary drain and the 3/4" line for the emergency. That will increase the flowcrate you can get through the sump if you need it (you can always throttle the drain line down, but you can't increase it once it's plumbed!)

2) The Herbie overflow works great, but can be a little tricky to "tune" in order to eliminate noise. The key here is to get the emergency standpipe to be as close as possible to the height of the Weir

3) on the diagram you show for the Herbie overflow, you see a ball valve to throttle the primary drain line ... don't do that ... ball valves are lousy at throttling flow and will make more noise ... get a GATE VALVE ... much better control and much less noise

4) You need to think about mechanical filtration in your sump ... are you going to use socks, or a fleece roll? You need to choose as this will be the only complication to the plumbing ... figuring out how to get water into the sump in such a way that it doesn't make a lot of splashing noise. Personally, I'd go for any one of the fleece rollers (I hate socks) ... that will dictate how you run the drain line into the sump

5) It's hard to see in your pictures, but check the bulkheads inside that sump ... other than the compartment with the float switch, I don't see a good bubble trap which is important. Do you plan to put the return pump in the compartment where the float switch is? Since you are so concerned about leaks that wouldn't be my first choice ... I'd want to seal that compartment carefully to the outside

6) since you are thinking about UV later, my advice would be to go with TWO return pumps ... for two reasons: (A) you get redundancy ... your return pump is the heartbeat of your system, so if one fails, the other keeps the tank limping along until you can fix it, (B) UV systems need to be selected to EITHER kill parasites or algae (they require different flow rates to do each) ... go with two smaller UV lights - one connected to the discharge of each pump - and us variable speed DC pumps and you can tune the discharge rate from each pump to get proper sterilization for both! You then just need to run the return lines separately into the display tank (DO NOT combine them!)

Anyway ... let me know if this makes sense to you and I can throw together a quick sketch

Thank you so much for the detailed reply! Here are my responses...definitely still open to feedback on my thoughts!

1. I've read here on other r2r posts of people converting durso overflows to herbies that if you want to be safe, you should use the smaller line as the primary, because if you use the smaller one as the emergency, it might not have enough flow to keep up with the return pump in a case of the primary becoming completely clogged. Those posts also were of the opinion that a 3/4" line would provide more than enough turnover for a tank of this size (80 gallons with dimensions 48" long x 24" wide x 16" tall).

2. Good to know!

3. Yep, planning on getting gate valves for both the primary overflow and the return line, since I'll be using an AC pump.

4. Going with socks. I don't need the automation level of a roller, I'm currently used to cleaning a canister filter biweekly, I can handle changing socks every few days!

5. Yes, I was planning on removing the float switch and plugging that hole and putting the return pump in there. Should I use silicone? Or a tiny bulkhead?

6. I'm only planning on one UV sterilizer, with a gate valve before the UV pump and in the bypass line so I can easily control the flow through it and change whether I want it to be for parasite control or algae control.

 

[adittam]

Bump

 

[adittam]

Bump

 

[TnFishwater98]

Bumping It!

 

[X-37B]

Durso is simple and I have used them for over 30 years with no issues.
My 120 runs one and the second bulkhead in the overflow becomes the return line.
I run 200gph through the sump, more is not needed, imo.

The sump looks like a standard tank modified with glass.
If it was me I would just get another sump tank and use no glass inserts. Its much simpler and makes it very easy to work in the sump.

Get a ball valve on the return line to control the flow to the tank and through the sump

Check my build thread.
You can pm me for any questions you have.

 

[adittam]

Durso is simple and I have used them for over 30 years with no issues.
My 120 runs one and the second bulkhead in the overflow becomes the return line.
I run 200gph through the sump, more is not needed, imo.

The sump looks like a standard tank modified with glass.
If it was me I would just get another sump tank and use no glass inserts. Its much simpler and makes it very easy to work in the sump.

Get a ball valve on the return line to control the flow to the tank and through the sump

Check my build thread.
You can pm me for any questions you have.

Totally agree that Durso is simple, but I'm looking for the backup and redundancy that the Herbie would give me.

Also, isn't the point of baffles to make it so only one compartment of the sump changes water level with evaporation? Without them, the water level in the compartment the skimmer is in will vary, leading to skimmer issues, especially since I plan to top of my water manually for the time being. Also, I plan to have a refugium, so isn't it better to keep that in one large compartment to keep debris from getting into the other equipment?

 

[X-37B]

Like I said before I have been running durso for over 30 years with zero issues and will never run a herbie but thats me.
Their is nothing wrong with them though.

With an ato my sump does not vary enough to affect my skimmer. A tunze ato will keep the sump at the same level as I run them on all systems and all my system sumps are 40 breeders with no baffles.

IMO, a sump is a terrible place for a fuge as I do not like light anywhere near my sump. Thats why I setup a remote fuge.
Also with the limited space in most fuges I would look at a turf scubber if you want it in the fuge.


With a filter sock, a large skimmer, a media reactor, and a carx, their is no room for baffles.

Its really a personal choice though.

 

[adittam]

I sincerely appreciate the replies, but a huge reason I’m going with a sump at all is so I can run a refugium in the large center section. No plans to run an ATO, CaRx, or media reactor.

Would love it if someone would have time to describe or draw the plumbing for my system as planned.

 

[adittam]

Bump

 

[adittam]

Bump

 

[adittam]

Still looking for help here.

Specifically, I'm especially interested in what diameter plumbing I should use on the return lines if I've got a 3/4" primary overflow drain and my return pump is an Eheim 1262 AC (rated for 900 gph). I'm going to plumb a 25 watt UV in-line off my return pump along with a bypass line. I"ll put gate valves on both the bypass line and before the UV so I can adjust the flow going through the UV and bypass appropriately to be able to treat for either parasites or water clarity, depending on the circumstances.

 

[adittam]

Here's the return pump I'm using...it has a 3/4" outlet on it. If that's the case, is there any reason to go bigger in diameter with the return plumbing?

1262 Universal Pump (900 GPH)

These versatile water pumps are perfect for returning water from sump filter systems and can be used either submersed in the water, or located in-line outside of the sump (less heat transfer). Highly energy efficient with silent operation, these dependable pumps will give years of operation...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

 

[srcleary]

I personally think a 3/4" return is more than enough. How many returns do you have going into the tank? If you had two, you could easily use 3/4" to a "tee" and divide to two 1/2" returns. if you have a single return, I would stick with the 3/4" to the return. It will easily handle the volume you are pumping. There is no reason to go larger.

 

[adittam]

I personally think a 3/4" return is more than enough. How many returns do you have going into the tank? If you had two, you could easily use 3/4" to a "tee" and divide to two 1/2" returns. if you have a single return, I would stick with the 3/4" to the return. It will easily handle the volume you are pumping. There is no reason to go larger.

1 return going into the tank, over the back into the overflow and then out into the display through a lock-line outlet.

 

[srcleary]

1 return going into the tank, over the back into the overflow and then out into the display through a lock-line outlet.

The 3/4" will be more than enough.

 

[adittam]

What's the best fitting to use to switch from the flexible tubing that clamps onto the barbed outlet coming out of the pump to hard PVC?

 

[srcleary]

If you are using a "slip fitting" you will want to use one a spigot by barbed adapter. Like the image. The spigot will fit inside your hard PVC fitting. They also sell threaded versions if you want to thread and not glue. I purchased mine from Bulk Reef Supply.

Gray Pipe Adapter Spigot x Barb

Use Street (Spigot) x Barb/Inserts where you want to use flexible tubing. More professional look than white Schedule 40 PVC. This street/spigot barb connector is great for converting plumbing fittings like gate valves or check valves to work with flexible tubing, or when you want to use...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

 

[adittam]

Perfect, thanks!

I was searching for "3/4 barbed slip" and wasn't coming up with anything, because they call it spigot instead...makes perfect sense...lol.