POLL: Do you ever see this hobby being viewed as cruel to animals thus becoming banned/illegal?

[Badboyan93l]

The ones that should get ban are the replaceable freshwater! It’s their fault most of us started this hobby anyways lol

 

[Badboyan93l]

Fresh waters fault!

 

[squidarcher]

I don’t think the hobby will ever become illegal from a cruelty standpoint, but there will definitely be restrictions on imports seeing how so many things are dying. While this is controversial, I also think there should be fines for definite fish abuse, because I have seen people keep fish in HORRIBLE conditions on purpose, ex a ONE YEAR OLD blue hippo in a pico tank

 

[Frizzy reefnewb]

This hobby is cruel to me for the amount of money I lose in corals and fish ...

 

[Murica]

With the micro sensitivity of today’s times I wouldn’t be surprised if it is.

 

[KarlsReef]

This hobby isn't the reason reefs are dying and fish are over fished, the mass trawlers sweeping the oceans cause knock on effects to the whole marine ecosystem. The prey and predator balance gets thrown off, the micro fauna gets thrown off, levels of dominant breeds changes, the ecological issues that cause the oceans temps to increase and pollution levels due to the crap we dump into the waters cause more damage than the hobby. The Hawaiian ban is a good thing, if it leads to better controls of fishing, like the Indo ban a few years back, I can't believe it will be forever but it will more than likely be stricter if it gets lifted. I'd imagine the industry is quite important there?
Certainly captive breeding should be the preference going forward but the majority (I'd like to think all) of reef keepers are not in this to kill off everything in their aquariums and want to see their pets thrive, I think a lot of developments within the hobby do lead to ideas on how we might save the reefs and marine life, not just research facilities.

 

[silvernblackr35]

Dogs and cats are not wild caught running in a field somewhere. They are bred.

Fish and coral that are aquacultured....still have a very short leash connection to the wild.

As far as "pets are pets"..... then that line of thinking can be said about raising tigers, lions, elephants, monkeys, snakes and exotic birds (????)

Hmmmmm. I could raise some tigers in my backyard. Wonder how the State of Ohio would like that?

One could argue that dogs and cats are still not meant to be pinned up in a small yard or stuck in an apartment all day. I see the difference between a healthy farm dog and an overweight and under-exercised city dog almost everyday, it's actually quite sad. Should we outlaw dog ownership in that case? Some people are just not taught or too stupid to treat animals in their care with respect.

More than half of the 40 fish in my tank are all over 10 years old, fed everyday, healthy, and living a life free of worries from predators. I would like to think that is about as good as it gets when you are a fish. Keep in mind once the sun goes down the reefs become a very hostile environment for just about every fish we keep in our aquariums.

 

[sfin52]

I think this hobby probably does get regulated out of existence at some point. We take loads of fish out of the wild, only to have very even make it more than a few months in someone's tank. The other thing I think not enough people think of is how we go through the most precious resource on the planet, water, like it's candy.

But in the end its treated processed and goes back to the waterway or in the ground. All water is recycled and reused.

 

[breefrost]

Do you ever see this hobby being viewed as cruel to animals thus becoming banned/illegal?

It is absolutely cruel, but it wont be banned.

In all animal trades, there really needs to be some accountability for the welfare of the living things being bought and sold.

To be clear, any fish that ends up in a good home is a very, very lucky one. Whats cruel about this hobby is that one lucky fish is one in a thousand.

Ive worked at a LFS and a wholesaler. This hobby causes so much unnecessary death, and workers are held to NDAs so they cant show the public the piles of bodies every day.

For every single fish you see in a store, dozens more died in order for it to get there. I am not exaggerating.

For every good hobbyist (like anyone on a forum who actually cares about doing right by their animals), there are at least 10 idiots who buy and kill fish on a regular basis until their kid gets bored or they give up.

A person should not be able to walk into a store and buy a living thing no questions asked. It should be treated the same as buying a cat or dog - prove that you have a place for it and that you at least have some idea of what youre doing (because we all start somewhere, right?). Buy from a breeder or have a professional help you plan and stock your tank.

There is so much broken and corrupt in this business, I could elaborate on every point Ive said. Lmk if you want an essay haha

More accountability, support captive breeding, and where you spend your money really matters.

 

[Screwgunner]

They will be the only reefs left if we don't clean up our waterways.

 

[Forty-Two]

Our hobby is inherently cruel to animals. There’s no getting around that, you just have to make peace with it (or delude yourself into thinking otherwise). I don’t subscribe to this sort of Christian/creationist worldview where people are the apex of creation and everything else exists for humans to use, or that human life is inherently, existentially of more value than any other life. So ethically I can’t overlook the cruelty of our hobby. Its definitely something I wrestle with, it’s a selfish and cruel hobby.

But that said, I don’t think it will ever be banned. It might become more regulated and inevitably collection sites will have temporary or even permanent bans, but there will always be aquacultured livestock and I don’t think it will ever become so over regulated as to fundamentally change the hobby. And any regulations won’t be born out of animal rights activism, or because of the cruelty of the hobby, it will be purely because of conservation (whether or not you agree with it or if there is sound science/data backing up the regulations is a whole other discussion).

Not to start a whole religious argument here - but the Torah (which is the original foundation of what Christians believe) clearly places animal suffering VERY high on the DO NOT DO list. In fact - the '7 Noahide laws' which non-Jews are supposed to adhere to also has this high on the list. Animal suffering, or the concept that animals are there for us to use is prohibited by the Torah to such an extreme extent that great care must be taken to ensure that animals do not suffer in any way shape or form. This includes when we kill them to eat (this is why there is very specific laws and practices around killing animals).

 

[Forty-Two]

It is absolutely cruel, but it wont be banned.

In all animal trades, there really needs to be some accountability for the welfare of the living things being bought and sold.

To be clear, any fish that ends up in a good home is a very, very lucky one. Whats cruel about this hobby is that one lucky fish is one in a thousand.

Ive worked at a LFS and a wholesaler. This hobby causes so much unnecessary death, and workers are held to NDAs so they cant show the public the piles of bodies every day.

For every single fish you see in a store, dozens more died in order for it to get there. I am not exaggerating.

For every good hobbyist (like anyone on a forum who actually cares about doing right by their animals), there are at least 10 idiots who buy and kill fish on a regular basis until their kid gets bored or they give up.

A person should not be able to walk into a store and buy a living thing no questions asked. It should be treated the same as buying a cat or dog - prove that you have a place for it and that you at least have some idea of what youre doing (because we all start somewhere, right?). Buy from a breeder or have a professional help you plan and stock your tank.

There is so much broken and corrupt in this business, I could elaborate on every point Ive said. Lmk if you want an essay haha

More accountability, support captive breeding, and where you spend your money really matters.

Wow - thats a shame about the LFS's - Ive often wondered that. It gives me pause to be a consumer in such an industry.

 

[Forty-Two]

Freshwater seems crueler if just by scale... how many dead bettas do you think pass through Petsmart in a week? How many fancy goldfish live out their lives in a 3 gallon bookshelf aquarium?

The hobby is inherently cruel and it will always be so long as there's money to be to made over the well-being of the animals.

That aside yes I can see wild collection of corals and reef fish being banned eventually, for environmental reasons. And it will probably be for the best with the state of wild coral reefs. But there may be no helping that and possibly our aquariums will start to preserve species that no longer exist in the wild.

There's a trump factor in Saltwater - its called 'exotics'.

Corals and saltwater fish are considered exotic, just as parrots, crocodiles and snakes are. Because they are considered exotic - it means they will likely get more attention and protection.

 

[Paul B]

They will never ban anything that brings in revenue. Like alcohol, cigarettes and now marijuana. They will just tax it to death.

 

[Ardeus]

We're all that little girl at the dentist on Finding Nemo.

How many of us would be willing to watch 10 fish being captured, 9 of them die in the supply chain so that we can have 1 encaged in our tanks?

Reality will make these ethical questions disappear soon.

50% of the great barrier reef has died in the last 20-30 years. How many more years before the rest goes?

The next couple of decades are going to be very interesting.

 

[KrisReef]

We're all that little girl at the dentist on Finding Nemo.

How many of us would be willing to watch 10 fish being captured, 9 of them die in the supply chain so that we can have 1 encaged in our tanks?

Reality will make these ethical questions disappear soon.

50% of the great barrier reef has died in the last 20-30 years. How many more years before the rest goes?

The next couple of decades are going to be very interesting.

50 percent of the great barrier reef has died in the last 20-30 years? Do you really believe that? i don't.

What is dying is freedom. Also, 100% of people over the age of 120 died in the last 2000 years? What does that statistic mean anyway? We didn't have any grasp on death tolls of coral reefs before the invention of SCUBA and we don't really know much about the reefs now. One year we here that the reef has bleached and it is declared dead, and later it turned out that the dead reef wasn't dead, it was bleached and then "came back to life." Scientist were surprised!

But anyway, nothing will keep do gooders from saving the planet because they know what needs to be done. They started a long time ago restricting freedoms and today they took more because the could.

Big Changes Coming to Australian Coral Exports

Australia has become one of the world’s biggest suppliers of live corals and this aquarium source became crucial to filling the gap when exports of all Indonesian corals were suspended. The availability of high quality, exotic and endemic corals from Australia has absolutely transformed the reef...

www.reef2reef.com

Believe we can save the planet? I don't. It's already been lost and doomed. The only redemption that is available is going to be forbidden to speak about and most people plug their ears and scream obscenities at you if you mention that fact.

Jesus saves.

 

[Fredinva]

I think this hobby probably does get regulated out of existence at some point. We take loads of fish out of the wild, only to have very even make it more than a few months in someone's tank. The other thing I think not enough people think of is how we go through the most precious resource on the planet, water, like it's candy.

Tuffyyyyy,
Don't fret too much over our use of precious water. It seems to be totally renewable as we go through life. My brother in law and I at one time had this argument(discussion). He said we would run out of water in our lifetime. Hmmmm.
Now, if we totally pollute the water with dangerous chemicals, that's another problem. Some areas of our USA have occasional droughts, and some areas have flooding. The fact is, water is used, evaporates, and returns to earth. Of course, the susceptible areas of the country are the southwest states. What I would like to see is the government build a pipeline. The government sponsored the interstate highway system, why not a national water system. The amount of water that goes through the Great Lakes and then over Niagara Falls, then out the St. Lawrence river is tremendous. Hence, a pipeline system for the areas that could use the water. The sea level is slowly rising, due to glaciers(fresh water) melting. Just more water for the sun to evaporate and return to this earth. So, water will always be here, as long as we protect it.
I'm 74 yrs old, and the discussion with my relative occured in 1970.
I was right, the water is still here.

 

[MnFish1]

If you want the 'opinions' of the PETA type groups - you merely need to google it. The Hawaii thing (ban) was mainly this type of argument. Yes - at some point It will become significantly more expensive to own aquaria, etc - with the restrictions, the market will decline - with the market decline - will come fewer choices - IMHO - it will be a self-fulfilling prophecy. People will be priced out of the market, the 'market' will stop producing product, and - whether 'legal' or 'not' - the hobby is endangered. IMHO

 

[robbyg]

If your an avid Scuba Diver who has been diving for at least the last 20 years and has revisited the same reefs a few times you know the answer to this question already.

 

[MnFish1]

Wow - thats a shame about the LFS's - Ive often wondered that. It gives me pause to be a consumer in such an industry.

Considering the fact that for every fish caught in the ocean, 10,000 of its brothers and sisters have died - the argument is lost on me. I think the supply chain, and the people catching/importing/shipping fish need to be mindful. But lets face it lol. No one here 'needs' a reef tank. This is a rich person's 'hobby'. I always wondered why keeping living things its called 'a hobby'.