Poor Man's Nutrients Control - Donovan's Nitrate Destroyer

ravi197699

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Good to know! Nice reactor. This one will be just one piece? As it wil not be be gravity fed, how are you going to move water with a slow rate? Or will water enter above and exit below? (and then resticting flow or something)


This reactor will be connected to manifold and water will enter from top and there is drain on the bottom that I will bring up to the height that I like to keep height of the water in the reactor, I will control the flow of the water with gate valve (Input side), I never restrict the flow of the drain of anything, it is risky, Input will be 1/2" and drain is 1". I hope I answer your question.
 

Tmmste

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This reactor will be connected to manifold and water will enter from top and there is drain on the bottom that I will bring up to the height that I like to keep height of the water in the reactor, I will control the flow of the water with gate valve (Input side), I never restrict the flow of the drain of anything, it is risky, Input will be 1/2" and drain is 1". I hope I answer your question.

Hmmm I see, but won't the water weight in the reactor force the water through the drain? I 'think' the water weight in the drain determines the waterlevel within the reactor. Or am I wrong?
 

ravi197699

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yes you are correct but if the drain is coming back up to the height you want to keep the water level at then it water will stay on that level. Please see the picture (sorry for bad drawing)
Nitrate Reactor.png
 

Gudhjem

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I've been thinking about the physics of having a sealed second chamber in these denitrators. I'm pretty sure a siphon is being created in these devices. That means the height of the water in the first tube of the reactor will be dictated by the height of the opening of the discharge tube on the second reactor. If the discharge tube exit (the end of the tube) is low (as it looks like it is on several of the reactors in this thread) it will bring the height of the water in the first tube down to this level, and effectively not use the part of the first tube that is higher than this level. You can easily test this hypothesis by lifting the discharge opening up a few inches. Does the flow stop temporarily when you do so? If yes, it's probably filling up the first chamber while you do this, since the siphon break has just been raised. Anyone know otherwise?
 

MaccaPopEye

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I've been thinking about the physics of having a sealed second chamber in these denitrators. I'm pretty sure a siphon is being created in these devices. That means the height of the water in the first tube of the reactor will be dictated by the height of the opening of the discharge tube on the second reactor. If the discharge tube exit (the end of the tube) is low (as it looks like it is on several of the reactors in this thread) it will bring the height of the water in the first tube down to this level, and effectively not use the part of the first tube that is higher than this level. You can easily test this hypothesis by lifting the discharge opening up a few inches. Does the flow stop temporarily when you do so? If yes, it's probably filling up the first chamber while you do this, since the siphon break has just been raised. Anyone know otherwise?
I wouldn't call it a siphon, a siphon uses suction to pull the liquid through a tube. This is just a simple drain. The pipes are connected at the bottom so they are considered to be a single container and no suction is required to bring water from the first chamber into the second chamber. As the water level equalises you are right that the drain height sets the level of water in both chambers, this is why my drain is only 1cm lower than the input.
 

MaccaPopEye

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If the water level rose above the drain tube, then it would create a siphon until the water level came back down to the level of the drain
 

Gudhjem

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If the water level rose above the drain tube, then it would create a siphon until the water level came back down to the level of the drain
Yes, agreed. But my point is (and I confess I'm not 100% sure about this), is that it's the exit of the drain tube that matters, not the level where it connects to the second tube. In other words, there IS suction created inside the second tube (and first tube, since they are connected to each other and effectively the same container of water), which means the level of water in the first tube will lower to match the outlet of the drain tube.
 

lmm1967

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don't pump water in fast enough to allow a siphon to be created.

DRIP the water in at a rate that allows the output to come out a drip or 2 a second. This will not create a siphon. The level in both chambers will be at the level of the output hole.
 

MaccaPopEye

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Yes, agreed. But my point is (and I confess I'm not 100% sure about this), is that it's the exit of the drain tube that matters, not the level where it connects to the second tube. In other words, there IS suction created inside the second tube (and first tube, since they are connected to each other and effectively the same container of water), which means the level of water in the first tube will lower to match the outlet of the drain tube.

I believe you are saying that if the exit tube outlet sits 5cm below where the exit tube actually goes into the pipe that the water level inside would be in line with the outlet of the exit tube and not the top of it (5cm lower), is that right?

upload_2018-10-17_6-17-39.png

If this was the case then water wouldn't be able to even reach the exit tube (like in the terrible drawing above). Even if there was enough water to start a siphon it would only lower the water to just below the top of the exit tube and then break the siphon as no more water could get in. Water would then begin to rise up again until a siphon started and then the process would repeat.

In reality it is more like the terrible drawing below, the top of the exit tube sets the height of the water level in both chambers. Even if you put so much water into the first chamber that it can't escape the second fast enough, a siphon will start to bring the water level back down to the top of the exit tube before it breaks and then rises and starts a siphon again. But you shouldn't be running that much flow (at least not according to Donovan) so any water going in should just be dribbling out at the same speed it is going in.

But either way, the top of the exit tube sets the water level :)
upload_2018-10-17_6-21-18.png
 

Gudhjem

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I believe you are saying that if the exit tube outlet sits 5cm below where the exit tube actually goes into the pipe that the water level inside would be in line with the outlet of the exit tube and not the top of it (5cm lower), is that right?

upload_2018-10-17_6-17-39.png

If this was the case then water wouldn't be able to even reach the exit tube (like in the terrible drawing above). Even if there was enough water to start a siphon it would only lower the water to just below the top of the exit tube and then break the siphon as no more water could get in. Water would then begin to rise up again until a siphon started and then the process would repeat.

In reality it is more like the terrible drawing below, the top of the exit tube sets the height of the water level in both chambers. Even if you put so much water into the first chamber that it can't escape the second fast enough, a siphon will start to bring the water level back down to the top of the exit tube before it breaks and then rises and starts a siphon again. But you shouldn't be running that much flow (at least not according to Donovan) so any water going in should just be dribbling out at the same speed it is going in.

But either way, the top of the exit tube sets the water level :)
upload_2018-10-17_6-21-18.png
I don't mean like the first drawing. You are right, that could never exist. If I had your illustration skills, I could easily show what I mean, but I don't. If there is a siphon (and I think there is), the water level will not lower in the second tube, as your first drawing shows, but in the first tube. Think of the three pieces -- the connecting pipe at the bottom, plus the second tube, plus the outlet tube, -- as one long tube, which they effectively are when the top on the second tube is sealed. The only water level open to atmospheric pressure is in the first tube, so that is where the siphon would lower the water level.

That said, I'm not 100% sure about this (although it makes sense to me and my experiment with raising the outlet tube on my Donovan device seems to support it), and I don't want to crowd this thread too much with this idea. Appreciate you taking the time to consider it and for the drawings.
 

ravi197699

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I used dual chamber reactor for 1 year and now my buddy is using it on his tank and I never faced issue with siphon, if it is sealed unit like mine shown in the picture then you will not have any issue,

nitrate.JPG
 

MichaelP121579

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Parts needed:-

3" or 4" PVC pipes (3 to 5 feet in length)
Matching flat end cap x 4 pieces
1" nipple x 1 unit
1" jam nut x 2 units (to match with the nipple)
Clear flexible hose (for effluent outlet)
Bio balls (medium & large size)
Ceramic rings (large seize)
Crushed coral (roughly 1/2" in size)
Pumice rocks (seachem denitrate/matrix or equivalent)
Piping works tools (hacksaw, PVC cutter, PVC glue, mechanical drill etc)
Reef safe ball valve (to match with your inlet pipe/hose)
Another length of clear flexible hose or 1/2" PVC pipe (for water inlet)
Small water inlet pump or you can tee-off your return/overflow (your decision)
 

T Carey

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If the water level rose above the drain tube, then it would create a siphon until the water level came back down to the level of the drain
Whether it creates a siphon or not has to do with the flow rate in the pipes. In this case the flow rate is so low that there is never a solid column of water which is needed to create a siphon. The water drains out of the bottom of the tube much faster than it is coming into the top so air fills most of the tube.
 

Tmmste

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Very nice! I am currently running the output of the reactor via a cillinder filled with gfo open on the top & bottom. No skimmer now for 2 months and everything goes well!
72066dc1b79593081d260c18b7800544.jpg
 

Hexabonal

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Hi guys, I'm fairly new to plumbing and the biology going on here, I've tried skimming (sorry, bad pun) the thread but ended up fairly confused.

1) what's the purpose of connecting two pipes rather than just using one and taking the output from the bottom?
2) I wanted to build one for my tank that has no sump. Most of you are just building it in a sump and it drips back in. I presume it would have to be above the tank for the return to work properly?
 

High pressure shells: Do you look for signs of stress in the invertebrates in your reef tank?

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