Poor Man's Nutrients Control - Donovan's Nitrate Destroyer
- Thread starter Donovan Joannes
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Devaji
5000 Club Member
skimmed this thread a bit but always have been curious.
I am thinking of a pretty big FOLWR system 375 gal and for filtration I would be running:
filter floss
UV set for parasites
skimmer
ATS
possable fuge to grow maco to feed the tangs
would adding a DND to the mix be a good idea?
I love the fact it can be DIY for pretty cheap.
I am thinking of a pretty big FOLWR system 375 gal and for filtration I would be running:
filter floss
UV set for parasites
skimmer
ATS
possable fuge to grow maco to feed the tangs
would adding a DND to the mix be a good idea?
I love the fact it can be DIY for pretty cheap.
Feet4Fish
Valuable Member
You initially filtration plan is solid and I would wait for the DND until your ATS and bio load mature. It is easy and cheap enough to add on down the line if needed. Just my $0.2. Also for a FOWLR consider aggressive mechanical filtration which also helps a great deal!
Devaji
5000 Club Member
I was thinking the same thing too. be pretty easy to add down the line if I needed.
what you you recommend for the "best" mech. filtration then?
Feet4Fish
Valuable Member
You can go many ways.... I employ three at different times.
1. Sequential filter pads/socks that take it from 200-100 microns sometimes down to 50 if wanted. I built my own sump so incorporated this flexibility.
2. Micron filtration through a pleated cartridge . These are phenomenal and topical can filter as low as 20 microns
3. DE filtration which can be incorporated intermittently with your cartridge which can filter down to 1 micron
not only does mechanical filtration remove the particulate matter so it can’t become a nutrient problem but if used right can help you in parasite management
1. Sequential filter pads/socks that take it from 200-100 microns sometimes down to 50 if wanted. I built my own sump so incorporated this flexibility.
2. Micron filtration through a pleated cartridge . These are phenomenal and topical can filter as low as 20 microns
3. DE filtration which can be incorporated intermittently with your cartridge which can filter down to 1 micron
not only does mechanical filtration remove the particulate matter so it can’t become a nutrient problem but if used right can help you in parasite management
DancingWind
Active Member
Best!? As in effective and convenient? Probably an Automatic Rollermat
Best as in no poop goes through? probably a basket of filter floss.
DancingWind
Active Member
I would like to share my not so poorman's reactor:
its a 2x40cm of 110mm PVC-U pipe + fittings
Its expensive ~110eur (and the pipe itself was free since it is from scrap heap)
Its very heavy this is high presasure stuff
and its bomb proof.
6L of media
All the pieces:
The flow is: ro press fiting scres inot 3/4" screw/ 16mm fiting
-> 16mm T fitting (other open end is for vodka)
-> 16mm to 20mm insert
-> 20 to 65mm insert
-> 65mm pipe/threaded/pipe set
-> 65mm to 110mm adapter
-> 110mm 110mm joint
-> 110mm pipe
-> 110mm end cap
that is one tower
outlet tower is the same except after 65mm pipe/thread/pipe set it ends with a 65mm end cap - I will drill a small hole and put in small hose for outlet
towers are conencted at the bottom by a 25 mm pipe piece
here is my progresion pictures:
assembly - just add pipeof any length you want
glueing:
20mm to 65 adapter glied into 65mm "screw"
I decided not to glue the part above to the main chaimber sections below (aka 65-110mm adapter to 110mm pipe joint) - will try a bit of teflon tape as they already fit quite snugly
Drilling the bottoms
plenty of meat for glue to bite into
bottom conenction using 25mm pipe section - very solid
Some reinforcement at the top just 25mm pipe pieces glued side by side
I will also for now friction fit the input T adapter - it will not be glued in just friction fitted with teflon to the main body (20mm adaper -> 20-65mm fitting)
Now the funny bit
From the time I decided I want one, bought pvc-u, got all the tools (all tools were taken to another property by my parents .. it's funny when on saturday afternoon you realize you have hammer and a rusty hand saw for pvc gluing) and the time I built (almost 2 months) - I managed to get my nitrates down to a very steady 25-30ppm ish (nyos nitrate kit) and I must say i'm quite happy with that so for now .. the reactor goes on the shelf :/
its a 2x40cm of 110mm PVC-U pipe + fittings
Its expensive ~110eur (and the pipe itself was free since it is from scrap heap)
Its very heavy this is high presasure stuff
and its bomb proof.
6L of media
All the pieces:
The flow is: ro press fiting scres inot 3/4" screw/ 16mm fiting
-> 16mm T fitting (other open end is for vodka)
-> 16mm to 20mm insert
-> 20 to 65mm insert
-> 65mm pipe/threaded/pipe set
-> 65mm to 110mm adapter
-> 110mm 110mm joint
-> 110mm pipe
-> 110mm end cap
that is one tower
outlet tower is the same except after 65mm pipe/thread/pipe set it ends with a 65mm end cap - I will drill a small hole and put in small hose for outlet
towers are conencted at the bottom by a 25 mm pipe piece
here is my progresion pictures:
assembly - just add pipeof any length you want
glueing:
20mm to 65 adapter glied into 65mm "screw"
I decided not to glue the part above to the main chaimber sections below (aka 65-110mm adapter to 110mm pipe joint) - will try a bit of teflon tape as they already fit quite snugly
Drilling the bottoms
plenty of meat for glue to bite into
bottom conenction using 25mm pipe section - very solid
Some reinforcement at the top just 25mm pipe pieces glued side by side
I will also for now friction fit the input T adapter - it will not be glued in just friction fitted with teflon to the main body (20mm adaper -> 20-65mm fitting)
Now the funny bit
From the time I decided I want one, bought pvc-u, got all the tools (all tools were taken to another property by my parents .. it's funny when on saturday afternoon you realize you have hammer and a rusty hand saw for pvc gluing) and the time I built (almost 2 months) - I managed to get my nitrates down to a very steady 25-30ppm ish (nyos nitrate kit) and I must say i'm quite happy with that so for now .. the reactor goes on the shelf :/
I used to have a DSB (4 inches) on my Marine tank, always read 0 nitrates for last 3 years . Tank had a leak and when I put it back, I removed the deep sand bed, after 6 months my nitrates went up to 80ppm, when I read this article I decided doing mine, after a week I have zero nitrates going out of the filter and my tank is at this point at 20ppm and dropping, tank size is 400 galons (including sump) so far no problems, I will do a second one for my other 100 gal tank. used cheap 4 inches drainage PVC and only electrical corrugated pipe conduct on the first chamber and mostly small pumice stone on the second just added de-nitrate from seachem as the last stage, you can see the output bubbling (nitrogen I guess), thanks to Donovan (RIP) and other contributors
windemerejack
Valuable Member
Thanks but its a bit beyond my skills, i dont even know what half the things mentioned actually are.
Great idea though.
Best thread I came across so far in r2r and I'm glad I found it! Been reading most of the post over the last couple of days.
What an AWESOME concept!
I'm planning a sumpless 110 litre (about 30g) tank and would love to give this a go. I'll be cycling the tank first of course so it won't happen any time soon.
I'm torn between the idea of a small in-tank unit and a super tall external unit.
If I were to build an external unit, it would be sitting on the ground next to the tank stand, reaching all the way up above the tank connected with the in, out hoses from above. So I'd guess around 1.5m or a bit less. The pipe diameter I have in mind is 89mm outside, 78mm inside (about 3 inches) for both internal and external units.
The in-tank unit is pretty straight forward, it would be about 60cm tall, standing on a corner inside the tank.
For the external unit, I have a few concerns like the possibility of it leaking (from the hose connections, dosing port, due to clogging or poor built quality, etc), about pipe having issues handling the water+media weight, sludge accumulation in the bottom(I have no basis for this but maybe for it being too tall with little flow?), tipping it over by accident etc. On the other hand, it would be very nice to have the extra water volume and space in the dt with the unit being outside.
So this is the greed vs fear thing.
Also, being only 110L, the size of the tall unit would definitely be overkill. Should this matter?
Any input would be greatly appreciated.
What an AWESOME concept!
I'm planning a sumpless 110 litre (about 30g) tank and would love to give this a go. I'll be cycling the tank first of course so it won't happen any time soon.
I'm torn between the idea of a small in-tank unit and a super tall external unit.
If I were to build an external unit, it would be sitting on the ground next to the tank stand, reaching all the way up above the tank connected with the in, out hoses from above. So I'd guess around 1.5m or a bit less. The pipe diameter I have in mind is 89mm outside, 78mm inside (about 3 inches) for both internal and external units.
The in-tank unit is pretty straight forward, it would be about 60cm tall, standing on a corner inside the tank.
For the external unit, I have a few concerns like the possibility of it leaking (from the hose connections, dosing port, due to clogging or poor built quality, etc), about pipe having issues handling the water+media weight, sludge accumulation in the bottom(I have no basis for this but maybe for it being too tall with little flow?), tipping it over by accident etc. On the other hand, it would be very nice to have the extra water volume and space in the dt with the unit being outside.
So this is the greed vs fear thing.
Also, being only 110L, the size of the tall unit would definitely be overkill. Should this matter?
Any input would be greatly appreciated.
DancingWind
Active Member
1st problem - if reactor is on the ground then vodka dosing port is WAY below water level.
for the most part this unit is gravity fed.
2nd.: 110L will have a very low bioload especially if you build a big unit. You might run into problems starting the reactor or keeping it consistent or with Sulfur-dioxide build up.
This is a tool for bigger systems - IMHO at your volumes I probably would not bother - just to a bucket water change every week should fix ALL your problems (and you will have others besides nitrates). Maybe latter when you have a system going you might want to try one but IMHo thsi is not a priority for a new nanotank
Thanks, Dancingwind, much appreciated.
1st problem: What I meant was the external reactor on the ground being taller than the water level so that it can be gravity fed. I should have worded it better.
2st: Yeah... You may be right. Deep down I may have already known that my bioload would be too little and small water changes would be the way to go. I just didn't want to admit it. I'm tempted to go for a bigger tank just so I can try this out. Or run the tank dirty on purpose.
As for the sulfur issue, couldn't I mitigate it by increasing the flow? From what little I understand, it's only when the nitrate is all used up that this becomes an issue so if the flow is increased just enough to make it a little less anaerobic and less efficient to have some nitrate remain, could it work?
DancingWind
Active Member
well If you increase flow it will exaserrbate problems with bioload. Idea is bacteria eat amonia/nitrites/something to use up the oxygen in the water. If there is not enougth nutrients in the water oxygen will not get absorbed and anaerobic zone will not form. Well that is my hypothesis at least though im not so sure ... scratch that - just do an experiment and find out
VictorDanovan
New Member
Hi everyone. I need help...
Can someone tell me where is the problem or where i must check first if my DND can not do the Denitrification?
Output from DND 12.5 after 30 minute from dosing carbon source (NOPOX)
Main Tank 12.5
My DND already running for 3 weeks new and dose Bactery (daily) and Carbon source (2 - 4 hourly)
My tank is only 50 gallon so i set the output drip by drip can not get fine stream to reach 5%-10% flow. The smell is bad enough now.
I hope you can reach my question since my english is not good >.<
Can someone tell me where is the problem or where i must check first if my DND can not do the Denitrification?
Output from DND 12.5 after 30 minute from dosing carbon source (NOPOX)
Main Tank 12.5
My DND already running for 3 weeks new and dose Bactery (daily) and Carbon source (2 - 4 hourly)
My tank is only 50 gallon so i set the output drip by drip can not get fine stream to reach 5%-10% flow. The smell is bad enough now.
I hope you can reach my question since my english is not good >.<
DancingWind
Active Member
We will need a lot more info.
How big is your DND and what is it's shape.
What media are you using
how much water is flowing through it?
VictorDanovan
New Member
Forget to bring the details
4” PVC with 27” height.
I am using pump and rubber hose for the input. Output using RODI hose with valve.
1st tower filled with bio ring, bio ball, bio block. Connected with 4” to the 2nd tower.
2nd Tower mostly MP sphere i put in there with a few bio block at the bottom.
So i want to know where was my mistake.
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