Possible Brook in Porcupine Puffer -- Urgent help

[yodeling_toast]

I really didn't want this to be my first post here, but! I need help.

A manager at Petco gave me this ailing puffer today on the down low. I intend on returning and fully paying for him eventually, but for now, this fish's survival is questionable. I believe it is Brook due to cloudy eyes and mucus coat.

He has already had a five minute freshwater dip and is now in clean well aerated saltwater at 1.024. I have General Cure available but no formulin. My friend who owns the LFS says she has Rid Ich Plus and Ich X, though, which both also have a certain % of formulin. Reefers, I need help -- what should my next steps be?

 

[fishguy242]

hi welcome to the reef...
let's call some expert help.
@vetteguy53081 @MnFish1 @Sharkbait19

 

[sc50964]

Following.

 

[sc50964]

Maybe this helps?

Brook in tank

I want to talk about this for a bit of therapy and some hope since there’s not much I can do. Intro: I put all of my fishes through 15 days of copper and metro, then 15 days of observation. I didn’t do prazipro for the first batch of fishes (including the fish to be discussed) but I did it for...

humble.fish

 

[sc50964]

No. This is the one.

Brooklynella

Brooklynella hostilis (updated 6-9-2023) What You Need To Know: * This is most often seen with clownfish, but it can afflict other fish (usually in the gills) as well. When a clownfish has Brook, the skin will appear to be peeling or sloughing off. Which is actually excess white mucous coming...

humble.fish

 

[yodeling_toast]

I ended up dosing with General Cure, since it may be a few hours until I can get my hands on more metro or anything with formulin in it, and according to staff he's been ill for a while. His eyes already look a bit better, and he is moving around but still obviously uncomfortable. Lots of strands of mucus floating around now.

Hospital tank is a 5 gal with two air stones, PVC for shelter and covered with a towel. Naming this fish "Rocky" because hopefully s/he is a fighter.

 

[yodeling_toast]

Would it be too harsh to dose with an antibiotic/anti-fungal like Furan-2 or Kanaplex as well?

 

[fishguy242]

@Tamberav @threebuoys @nereefpat

 

[Sebastiancrab]

I have had success fighting brook with a Hydroplex 10 minute saltwater dip. It knocked the bugs off when a freshwater dip did not, was much less stressful, and gave my fish a fighting chance. Cupramine (copper) is in my hospital tank.

 

[Tamberav]

Is he covered in small white dots? I can't tell if it is the spots in the tank or if those are on them. If he has spots then it could be ich or velvet with a secondary infection in his eyes. Stands of mucus does sound brooky though. I worry you may be dealing with multiple parasites.

I would probably hit him with antibiotics as a precaution from infections on top of the parasite he is fighting. He looks bad and they work slowly.

 

[yodeling_toast]

Is he covered in small white dots? I can't tell if it is the spots in the tank or if those are on them. If he has spots then it could be ich or velvet with a secondary infection in his eyes. Stands of mucus does sound brooky though. I worry you may be dealing with multiple parasites.

I would probably hit him with antibiotics as a precaution from infections on top of the parasite he is fighting. He looks bad and they work slowly.

Yeah, he does have spots, but they don't look quite like ich...may be, though. Around his mouth etc the mucus just looks super thick...
I'm trying to figure out some sort of overall plan.

So far, we've had a five minute freshwater dip, then a dose of General Cure in about 4g of water.

Next steps...
When should the next freshwater dip be, if any? What else should I dose him with? If it's velvet or ich would the General Cure at least start helping that? When I get to the LFS soon I am looking for something with either a high percentage of formulin and/or a high percentage of chloroquine and/or metro.

Going to give him a dose of antibiotics too. Furan-2 or Kanaplex? When should the next water change be?

Thanks all, I've never really had to deal with a fish this ill before (knock on wood).

 

[sc50964]

Would it be too harsh to dose with an antibiotic/anti-fungal like Furan-2 or Kanaplex as well?

Medication Compatibility Guide

The following thread will serve as database of medications that can or can not be mixed together. The thread will always be updated with list of medications that have been tested together. The title of each section is linkable to a thread that gets into more details about the medication itself...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[vetteguy53081]

Clear case of ich. The many dots have even caused the cloudy eyes likely covered by protozoans. Unlike Oodinium and brook that typically attack the gills first, Cryptocaryon usually appears at the onset as salt-sized white spots visible on the body and fins of a host fish and then may infest the gills. Because Crypto is more easily recognized in its beginning stage, it is much easier to treat and cure before it gets out of control but in this case has gone past that.
At this stage, the fish may have already scratched itself against objects in an attempt to dislodge the parasites, and rapid respiration/breathing has occured as trophonts, mucus, and inflamed tissue clog the gills.
The fish as in case of yours becomes listless, refuses to eat, may experience loss of color in its patches as the trophonts destroy the pigment cells, and secondary bacterial infections may invade the lesions caused by the trophonts.
Puffers I find are very sensitive to copper treatments even though copper is effective with Oodinium,but it is not effective on the trophonts that burrow deeply into the tissues of fish, so the aquarium needs to be treated repeatedly until all of the trophonts mature and are gone. This period is about 6 weeks - sometimes less.
Coppersafe would be my treatment of choice and Make sure you have a reliable copper test kit to monitor levels of 2.25-2.5ppm. No API kit either
You will have to have display tank go fishless for 6-8 weeks at 80.5deg and siphon surface of that tank biweekly to remove any dead trophants.
Lastly. . increase oxygen with airstone as with most treatments which impact oxygen in the tank.
If puffer is not labor breathing, you can give it a freshwater dip for some relief but understand FW dip will stress it further

 

[vetteguy53081]

Medication Compatibility Guide

The following thread will serve as database of medications that can or can not be mixed together. The thread will always be updated with list of medications that have been tested together. The title of each section is linkable to a thread that gets into more details about the medication itself...

www.reef2reef.com

Would it be too harsh to dose with an antibiotic/anti-fungal like Furan-2 or Kanaplex as well?

Do not at least at this time. Thats for bacterial issues- this is clearly parasitical

 

[MnFish1]

Do not at least at this time. Thats for bacterial issues- this is clearly parasitical

The key point to deciding what to do is an accurate diagnosis. To get this you need an accurate history and picture. I was away todayso will assume the rest are correct. I personally do not believe that many or the herbal remedies are anything more than placebos. So. Nice fish. He looks like he has at least cryptocaryon. I agree that your tank needs to go fallow and any other fish treated. Many people have great success with copper and puffers depending on the type of v copper. This does not look like Brooke Ella to me

 

[Sharkbait19]

Wishing your puffer best of luck! Pretty much anything I would say has been said already.
Coppersafe is known to be safer for puffers if you can get that.

 

[yodeling_toast]

Thanks everyone!

LFS owner agreed it's a super bad case of ich. I grabbed some non-copper Ich X treatment.

I wanna reiterate, he's not technically *my* fish (and I'll need to rehome him if he pulls through), I picked him up from Petco -- so he went straight into a hospital QT and my other fish have never been exposed

I will keep this updated. If he lives through the night I will be slightly more optimistic.

 

[yodeling_toast]

Update:

Major improvement. He is swimming rather than sitting on the bottom, and is peering around at me from the paper I taped to the side of the tank. One eye looks MUCH more clear and the other has visible crap sloughing off of it.

Tomorrow morning he is getting a %100 water change and I will offer him some shrimp!

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Update:

Major improvement. He is swimming rather than sitting on the bottom, and is peering around at me from the paper I taped to the side of the tank. One eye looks MUCH more clear and the other has visible crap sloughing off of it.

Tomorrow morning he is getting a %100 water change and I will offer him some shrimp!

Sorry, coming into this late. That is pretty clearly late stage ich, Cryptocaryon. Ich-X doesn't work very well for marine ich, not like it does for FW ich. The additional trouble is, all ich treatments need about 3 days to really start to work and a fish with an advanced case may not have three days to live.

FW dips really don't help with this because the tomonts are imbedded deep in the skin. Two treatments that do work are coppersafe and hyposalinity. The trouble is, you likely aren't set up for those, and they take up to 48 hours to get going, which stretches the time out to five days and this fish clearly won't last that long.

In the end, I would use the tank transfer method (TTM) to reduce the number of tomonts to near zero, and then hold the fish in a QT with coppersafe for 30 days.

Jay

 

[Unitylover]

Update:

Major improvement. He is swimming rather than sitting on the bottom, and is peering around at me from the paper I taped to the side of the tank. One eye looks MUCH more clear and the other has visible crap sloughing off of it.

Tomorrow morning he is getting a %100 water change and I will offer him some shrimp!

his mouth tho