Possible Brook in QT - help

Wonf · Nov 6, 2017

Long story short, I have 2 diamond gobies and a bicolor dottyback (had...) in my QT. Last night, the dottyback was not acting normal and this morning, he looked like he was in bad shape. He had a white coloration (not ich) and lost small parts of a lot of fins. Within a couple hours, he was dead with a stringy white poop hanging off him.

I'm assuming this is Brooklynella (someone correct me if I'm wrong) and now I'm not sure what to do to save the Diamond Gobies. Just did a 50% WC. Sad but relieved for my DT cuz they had 1 more week of QT (on week 3) and all had Prazi last week, so I'm pretty sure it's not worms. I have Cupramine on hand (if it was Velvet or Ich) but have had no luck with dosing copper and diamond gobies so really don't want to use it. I just ordered some Ruby Reef Rally (should be here Wed) and planning on dosing the QT with it.

Do you think my diagnosis of Brook is right? If so, is Prazi and Ruby Reef Rally OK to use together? Was thinking about dosing Prazi while waiting for the Reef Rally to show up, but can't find online if the two are safe together...

@Humblefish ??? Thanks in advance...

Wonf · Nov 6, 2017

Also, if the Diamond Gobies never really show any signs of being sick (they look totally fine right now...) how do I know when it's safe for them to move to the DT? In fact, if there were only the gobies in my QT, I feel like I would've never known they were carrying the disease and they would've entered my DT next week....
(I know it's them because the only reason the dottyback was in the QT was because he was in a "timeout" from the DT... I know I know... but it was either move him or lose multiple other fish...)

Maritimer · Nov 6, 2017

Your description certainly sounds like Brooklynella to me . . . You've probably already read Humblefish's writeup on it, but here it is again, just in case: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/brooklynella.247938/#post-2913287

And another well-written piece on it (along with Uronema), just because I had the tab open: http://www.ultimatereef.com/articles/brooklynella/

Use the Ruby Reef Rally as a bath before returning to the QT, rather than in the QT itself. (The stuff is thoroughly unpleasant used in the QT . . . )

~Bruce

Wonf · Nov 6, 2017

Thanks Bruce. (and yes I've read both the writeups above

)

I just wanted to make sure a) that I was properly diagnosing the disease and b) should I dose PraziPro while I wait for the Ruby Reef (if you think PraziPro is even necessary...).

Not sure what you mean by thoroughly unpleasant in the QT... Wouldn't bathing the fish in Reef Rally just to return him to the QT with the Brook in it just make them "catch" it again? I was thinking dosing the QT itself with the Reef Rally would be the only way to fully kill off the Brook... Especially since the gobies aren't showing any signs of Brook, how do I know they are "cured" or free of carrying it? It's kind of scary to think they had Brook with them the whole time in my QT (3 weeks) and never showed a single sign when I've seen my clowns (and now a dottyback) show symptoms and die within hours....

Maritimer · Nov 6, 2017

Prazi-Pro is great against flukes, but not useful against brook.

Reef Rally's bottle recommends an in-tank dose, but I've tried it - the water gets brown and nasty. You could dip the gobies as well - might as well give them the full treatment, and keep it out of your display.

~Bruce

Humblefish · Nov 6, 2017

The stringy white poop was probably intestinal worms: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/internal-parasites-intestinal-worms.267419/

The white discoloration and loss of fins could be brook, or possibly a bacterial infection of some sort: https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/tank-terror-bacterial-infections-in-the-reef-tank.22/

Wonf · Nov 6, 2017

Which is why I thought about the PraziPro... If it was a bacterial infection, I've got Maracyn 2 on hand, should I use that??? Ugh... I want to save these gobies but also don't want to risk anything getting in my DT... How am I supposed to know what killed the dottyback???

@Humblefish - what would you do? Timing of death points to brook, but white stringy poo points to intestinal worms... and of course brook can look like a bacterial infection... The 2 gobies and dottyback have been in the QT together for 3+ weeks... I'm willing to dose Prazi now while I wait for the Reef Rally. Do you know if it's save to use together???

Wonf · Nov 6, 2017

safe* to use together

Humblefish · Nov 6, 2017

@Wonf Not to sound gross, but was the white stringy poop hanging out of the dead fish's butt??

Wonf · Nov 7, 2017

Humblefish said:
@Wonf Not to sound gross, but was the white stringy poop hanging out of the dead fish's butt??

@Humblefish not gross at all. It was. My fault, i thought that was implied when i called it 'poop'.

Humblefish · Nov 7, 2017

Wonf said:
@Humblefish not gross at all. It was. My fault, i thought that was implied when i called it 'poop'.

I would definitely treat for intestinal worms then (via food soaking).

It would also probably be a good idea to start dosing Metroplex + Kanaplex in the QT to address the possibility of brook + a bacterial infection being active in there.

Wonf · Nov 7, 2017

Thanks @Humblefish. Will soak their pellets in Prazi before feeding today.
I thought Metroplex/Kanaplex was for bacterial infections. How do I eradicate the Brook?

I'm planning on feeding Prazi soaked pellets, adding Reef Rally to the QT AND adding Maracyn 2 for possible bacterial infections. Is it OK to do all 3 of these together???

Humblefish · Nov 7, 2017

Wonf said:
How do I eradicate the Brook?

Read this: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/brooklynella.247938/

Wonf said:
I'm planning on feeding Prazi soaked pellets, adding Reef Rally to the QT AND adding Maracyn 2 for possible bacterial infections. Is it OK to do all 3 of these together???

I would use Rally as a 90 min bath treatment: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/acriflavine.282887/

Once the fish is back in QT, dose Metroplex + Kanaplex to fight both brook + infection.

If you want to use Maracyn (in lieu of Kanaplex) to ward off a possible infection, dose Maracyn 1 and 2 to ensure you are providing a broad spectrum antibiotic treatment.

Wonf · Nov 7, 2017

@Humblefish Thanks! I just dosed the QT with PraziPro again (just in case) and will plan on doing the Reef Rally dip once it gets here. If I read all your posts correctly, probably do 2 dips/baths over the span of a couple days. (Not looking forward to this... they are the worst jumpers I've ever seen... I'm probably going to be picking them up from the ground at least a couple time... sigh...)

While they are in the bath, should I do a WC of the QT to try and remove any Brook in the water?
After a week or so, I'll dose the QT with Maracyn2 for bacterial infections (looking for some Maracyn1 now).
Thanks again!

Humblefish · Nov 7, 2017

What would be optimal to do:

Give both gobies a 90 min Rally bath (can be longer if you need more time to complete Step 2).
Transfer them into a clean/sterile QT. If this is not possible, break down & clean out your existing QT (using vinegar), and then fill it back up with new SW.

One acriflavine bath and then a transfer into a clean QT might take care of your whole problem, minus the intestinal worms.

I feel your pain about Diamond Gobies jumping out. I built this homemade lid specifically for that reason (eggcrate + screen, on the underside):

Wonf · Nov 7, 2017

@Humblefish thanks for the confirmation. That's exactly what I'll do.

And for what it's worth, the main reason I'm so hesitant to copper treat these gobies and anxious about moving them to/from the QT to a bath is because I've killed so many of them....
1st and 2nd attempt of prophylactically (?) treating copper killed them (followed recommended 2 part dosing on bottle first time, spread that over 5 days the second time and still didn't work), then the 3rd time had them jump through my custom made egg crate only QT lid, 4th time learned they could break and jump through an egg crate lid with mesh super glued to it, which brings me to my 6th attempt. I've now zip tied the mesh to the egg crate...
(my 5th attempt was a failure because on night 1 of getting into the DT, the gobies found a 1/2 inch opening between my lighting mount legs and glass cover and escaped the first night in DT...)
I see from your pic that I could've avoided some of this with the mesh super glued to the bottom........ feel so guilty.....

My QT cover now:

Humblefish · Nov 7, 2017

@Wonf Yup, a Diamond Goby will sometimes jump and wedge himself in-between the top of the eggcrate and the bottom of the mesh. And then die from being out of water. It's crazy, but this is why I started building my lids with the screen on the underside.