Possible Brook on clown?

Ahi Mahi

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Hi, quick introduction: I had a reef 120 gallon reef tank for about a decade but tore it down and sold it roughly 6 years ago due to a move. I am finally getting back into reefing. My main tank is a 75 gallon all in one. It has been cycled and running for a few months now. No fish currently, just some soft corals and clean up crew.

I have four fish in a 20 gallon cycled qt tank that I have been watching for about a week. I plan on following protocol and medicating with CopperSafe and then Prazipro. However… I have run into a couple of issues and would appreciate any advice.

Firstly, the fish:

- Two caramel clowns

- One blue/green chromis (started with three, two died within a couple of days from what I believe was Uronema. See pic)

- One bicolor blenny. This guy has actually been in the qt for a month waiting on friends.

The new arrivals apparently have an intestinal bug… all with white stringy poop that doesn’t want to fall off. I’ve been trying to feed them food dosed with Metroplex… they don’t like it much but they do eat some. I went ahead and dosed the qt twice with Metroplex to see if that would help. I think I’m seeing improvement as the poop is getting more of a normal brown most of the time.

My biggest concern is one of my clowns. In the last couple of days I have noticed a slight opaque coating on the back half of one of his sides. He also, has been very picky at eating, even with non-medicated food. He often charges up to the food (pellets or cubes) and stops just short of eating. He is active and breathing normal.

Please see photos and tell me what you think. I have a bottle of formalin on standby but only want to use it as a last resort. Not sure if I should start with either the copper or prazi or do something else first.

IMG-6013.jpg
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Brook will display mucus and other symptomatic features. As with the chromis, this appears to be uronema which can spread at a rapid pace and best treated with formalin based medication. Quick cure is a goof form of formalin starting with a 45 minute bath followed by treatment for 2 weeks
If no quick cure, Ruby rally pro will work but take a little longer started with a 60-90 minute bath and treatment for 2 weeks. Ruby Rally will also address brook should it develop in clown.
As an OPTION, you can add metroplex by seachem to the foods for 10-14 days to assure all parasites are addressed.

Treatment best done in quarantine setting although rally is safe
 

Jay Hemdal

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Hi, quick introduction: I had a reef 120 gallon reef tank for about a decade but tore it down and sold it roughly 6 years ago due to a move. I am finally getting back into reefing. My main tank is a 75 gallon all in one. It has been cycled and running for a few months now. No fish currently, just some soft corals and clean up crew.

I have four fish in a 20 gallon cycled qt tank that I have been watching for about a week. I plan on following protocol and medicating with CopperSafe and then Prazipro. However… I have run into a couple of issues and would appreciate any advice.

Firstly, the fish:

- Two caramel clowns

- One blue/green chromis (started with three, two died within a couple of days from what I believe was Uronema. See pic)

- One bicolor blenny. This guy has actually been in the qt for a month waiting on friends.

The new arrivals apparently have an intestinal bug… all with white stringy poop that doesn’t want to fall off. I’ve been trying to feed them food dosed with Metroplex… they don’t like it much but they do eat some. I went ahead and dosed the qt twice with Metroplex to see if that would help. I think I’m seeing improvement as the poop is getting more of a normal brown most of the time.

My biggest concern is one of my clowns. In the last couple of days I have noticed a slight opaque coating on the back half of one of his sides. He also, has been very picky at eating, even with non-medicated food. He often charges up to the food (pellets or cubes) and stops just short of eating. He is active and breathing normal.

Please see photos and tell me what you think. I have a bottle of formalin on standby but only want to use it as a last resort. Not sure if I should start with either the copper or prazi or do something else first.

IMG-6013.jpg
IMG-6018.jpg
IMG-6020.jpg


IMG-5980 (1).jpg
Welcome to Reef2Reef!

The green chromis has classic internal Uronema, you can’t effectively treat that.

I can’t see the clown clearly enough to see what’s going on, could be the start of Brooklynella.

Metro in food never really works - the dose is uncontrolled. If the dose is too high, it is so bitter that the fish won’t eat it. If the fish eat it well, the dose is too low.

At this point, I’d consider being ready to dose formalin, but wait to see if you can confirm Brooklynella.

Jay
 
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Ahi Mahi

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Brook will display mucus and other symptomatic features. As with the chromis, this appears to be uronema which can spread at a rapid pace and best treated with formalin based medication. Quick cure is a goof form of formalin starting with a 45 minute bath followed by treatment for 2 weeks
If no quick cure, Ruby rally pro will work but take a little longer started with a 60-90 minute bath and treatment for 2 weeks. Ruby Rally will also address brook should it develop in clown.
As an OPTION, you can add metroplex by seachem to the foods for 10-14 days to assure all parasites are addressed.

Treatment best done in quarantine setting although rally is safe
Thanks for the response. What do you think that is showing up on the side of the clown?

As for the one chromis left, he has zero signs of issues (the other two had a visible wound on one side within a day of receipt). I think I will wait to treat him until I actually see any issues. I have a bottle of formalin ready.
 
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Ahi Mahi

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Welcome to Reef2Reef!

The green chromis has classic internal Uronema, you can’t effectively treat that.

I can’t see the clown clearly enough to see what’s going on, could be the start of Brooklynella.

Metro in food never really works - the dose is uncontrolled. If the dose is too high, it is so bitter that the fish won’t eat it. If the fish eat it well, the dose is too low.

At this point, I’d consider being ready to dose formalin, but wait to see if you can confirm Brooklynella.

Jay
Thank you for the response as well. I'm hoping the remaining chromis makes it on his own (he looks and acts completely normal as of this post). I will keep watching the clownfish and be ready for a formalin treatment. Do you think I should hold off on starting copper/prazi until I have him sorted out, or should I start with that and pull him out if I see more defined symptoms of Brook?
 

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Thank you for the response as well. I'm hoping the remaining chromis makes it on his own (he looks and acts completely normal as of this post). I will keep watching the clownfish and be ready for a formalin treatment. Do you think I should hold off on starting copper/prazi until I have him sorted out, or should I start with that and pull him out if I see more defined symptoms of Brook?
That is a tough question! I wish copper helped with Brook, but it doesn’t.

What form of formalin to you have?

Jay
 

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Thanks for the response. What do you think that is showing up on the side of the clown?

As for the one chromis left, he has zero signs of issues (the other two had a visible wound on one side within a day of receipt). I think I will wait to treat him until I actually see any issues. I have a bottle of formalin ready.
Need better angle and side pics of clown which I believe Jay also looking for
 
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Ahi Mahi

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37% Formaldehyde 15% Methanol - lab grade from Amazon. Only problem with this is I don't currently have a second cycled qt tank ( I have a an extra 10 gallon tank not currently being used). I also read about the anecdotal suggestion that treatment with this could possibly drastically shorten the lifespan of said fish, hence not really wanting to use it unless necessary.
 
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Ahi Mahi

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I'll try to get better pics tomorrow. You can see it in the video here as well. It is fairly faint, and only really shows up at certain angles. It is the fish on the right, and the area is the back half of his left side.
 
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37% Formaldehyde 15% Methanol - lab grade from Amazon. Only problem with this is I don't currently have a second cycled qt tank ( I have a an extra 10 gallon tank not currently being used). I also read about the anecdotal suggestion that treatment with this could possibly drastically shorten the lifespan of said fish, hence not really wanting to use it unless necessary.

Formalin has serious human health concerns in its use - some people won't use it in their homes, and I get that.

However, the idea that it causes fish to die in large numbers, like two years after treatment is bunk. Somebody had a problem and attributed it to prior formalin use with no proof. That idea then got "set" in the hobby and keeps getting repeated (sigh). I used formalin for literally half a century and have never seen this. I also have for many years, had my public aquarium fish collection on a computer database that helps identify latent mortality like this....yet nothing.

That said, I'm not saying run and do a formalin treatment just yet.


Jay
 
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Ahi Mahi

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Hey I’ll take your experience over hearsay any day. What’s your opinion of dosing the entire qt vs a dip? I figure IF it is Brook, I’d need to treat all the fish in there anyways… and like I mentioned before, I do not have another cycled qt ready for transfer after a dip. Of course, I’m still going to wait a while longer before pulling the trigger either way.
Formalin has serious human health concerns in its use - some people won't use it in their homes, and I get that.

However, the idea that it causes fish to die in large numbers, like two years after treatment is bunk. Somebody had a problem and attributed it to prior formalin use with no proof. That idea then got "set" in the hobby and keeps getting repeated (sigh). I used formalin for literally half a century and have never seen this. I also have for many years, had my public aquarium fish collection on a computer database that helps identify latent mortality like this....yet nothing.

That said, I'm not saying run and do a formalin treatment just yet.


Jay
 

Jay Hemdal

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Hey I’ll take your experience over hearsay any day. What’s your opinion of dosing the entire qt vs a dip? I figure IF it is Brook, I’d need to treat all the fish in there anyways… and like I mentioned before, I do not have another cycled qt ready for transfer after a dip. Of course, I’m still going to wait a while longer before pulling the trigger either way.

What about a five minute FW dip, and then return the fish to the tank and dose it with 25 ppm formalin daily?

Jay
 
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Ahi Mahi

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What about a five minute FW dip, and then return the fish to the tank and dose it with 25 ppm formalin daily?

Jay
I can give that a shot. The fish in question is eating better now, but that slight opaque coat is still there and showing up on the other side as well. Whatever it is, it isn't as dramatic as some of the photos of Brooklynella that I have seen on this and other sites, but it obviously shouldn't be there. How many days would you suggest dosing the tank with formalin (I searched but couldn't find the answer)? And thank you for all of the help. It is most beneficial.
 

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I can give that a shot. The fish in question is eating better now, but that slight opaque coat is still there and showing up on the other side as well. Whatever it is, it isn't as dramatic as some of the photos of Brooklynella that I have seen on this and other sites, but it obviously shouldn't be there. How many days would you suggest dosing the tank with formalin (I searched but couldn't find the answer)? And thank you for all of the help. It is most beneficial.
Technically, 25 ppm formalin will dissipate in 24 hours, so you could dose daily for as long as needed. However, I would reassess after three days.

Remember you need to aerate the tank very well and dose only the actual tank water volume, not the rated tank capacity. The formula is: Length times Width times Height (to waterline) in inches, inside tank measurement, and divide by 231 to get US gallons. Then multiply the gallons by 25 ppm and divide by 266 to get milliliters of formalin to use. Run the math twice to ensure you get the same answer. It should be 0.094 ml per gallon. Wear gloves and eye protection and don't breath the fumes.

Jay
 
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Technically, 25 ppm formalin will dissipate in 24 hours, so you could dose daily for as long as needed. However, I would reassess after three days.

Remember you need to aerate the tank very well and dose only the actual tank water volume, not the rated tank capacity. The formula is: Length times Width times Height (to waterline) in inches, inside tank measurement, and divide by 231 to get US gallons. Then multiply the gallons by 25 ppm and divide by 266 to get milliliters of formalin to use. Run the math twice to ensure you get the same answer. It should be 0.094 ml per gallon. Wear gloves and eye protection and don't breath the fumes.

Jay
Thanks, I went (25 / 1,000,000) x 3785.4 and came up with the same .094ml per gallon, and triple checked my math, so having you give me the same number boosts my confidence.

Currently the qt has a hob filter (with just a sponge inside) as well as a large sponge filter. I actually have the airflow turned down a bit and can crank it up. Think this will suffice?

Definite affirmative on the PPE, while not related to chemistry or aquariums, my career as a federal railroad safety inspector has turned me into a bit of a safety freak outside of work.... I might even throw on a hazmat suite while I'm at it (kidding...or am I).
 
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Thanks, I went (25 / 1,000,000) x 3785.4 and came up with the same .094ml per gallon, and triple checked my math, so having you give me the same number boosts my confidence.

Currently the qt has a hob filter (with just a sponge inside) as well as a large sponge filter. I actually have the airflow turned down a bit and can crank it up. Think this will suffice?

Definite affirmative on the PPE, while not related to chemistry or aquariums, my career as a federal railroad safety inspector has turned me into a bit of a safety freak outside of work.... I might even throw on a hazmat suite while I'm at it (kidding...or am I).
Yes, a sponge filter bubbling away will handle the aeration needs.
Jay
 
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Ahi Mahi

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Yes, a sponge filter bubbling away will handle the aeration needs.
Jay
Fresh water dip and dosed to 25 ppm last night. This morning the film seems almost completely gone and he is eating well. I think I will dose for 1-2 more days, give them a break, and then start the copper treatment. Thanks again!

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