Possible Mechanism for Seachem Prime Detoxification of Ammonia

[Dan_P]

As I understand - it is a liquid standard - did you dope this into a certain volume of 35 psu IO ? did you take a zero on the saltwater before the dope?

Sincerely Lasse

You got it right, dosed the standard into … I might have used aquarium water for the reason that IO contains detectable ammonia. But in any case yes, checked Seneye before adding ammonia.

By the way, I am in the process of repeating my work. So, any ideas for improving the investigation or things that I should look for, now is the time to shoot me a message with your list of ideas.

 

[Lasse]

I would mix new saltwater to 35 psu and aerate it for at least 48 hours. After that do both a API (or whatever) total ammonia test and a seneye test. Dose and do a total ammonia test and seneye test again. Measure the pH - and after that - rise it in batches - 0.1 pH (or near) up to 9.5 and follow with your seneye. Around 9.5 there should be 50% NH3 and 50 % NH4 - @Randy Holmes-Farley may now the exact pH for 50-50 split. at pH 9.5 - start to aerate heavily and follow with seneye. When seney goes down a bit - do a new total ammonia test.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Lasse]

I would mix new saltwater to 35 psu and aerate it for at least 48 hours. After that do both a API (or whatever) total ammonia test and a seneye test. Dose and do a total ammonia test and seneye test again. Measure the pH - and after that - rise it in batches - 0.1 pH (or near) up to 9.5 and follow with your seneye. Around 9.5 there should be 50% NH3 and 50 % NH4 - @Randy Holmes-Farley may now the exact pH for 50-50 split. at pH 9.5 - start to aerate heavily and follow with seneye. When seney goes down a bit - do a new total ammonia test.

Sincerely Lasse

Forget - when you do your "rise pH test" follow up with this calculator - you know the total NH3-NH4 from your addition and API test. Now you can follow how it will react for different NH3 concentrations. It is important not to aerate the sample during the pH rise time (NH3 will be lost to the air if aerated)

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Around 9.5 there should be 50% NH3 and 50 % NH4 - @Randy Holmes-Farley may now the exact pH for 50-50 split. at pH 9.5 - start to aerate heavily and follow with seneye. When seney goes down a bit - do a new total ammonia test.

The pKa for ammonia/ammonium ( the pH of equal concentrations of ammonia and ammonium) is reported to be 9.3 to 9.5 in seawater, with the variation possibly relating to researches actually using different pH scales.

 

[Lasse]

The pKa for ammonia/ammonium ( the pH of equal concentrations of ammonia and ammonium) is reported to be 9.3 to 9.5 in seawater, with the variation possibly relating to researches actually using different pH scales.

Thanks

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Bsmith]

Welp…

I keep FW tanks and have used Prime and more recently Safe. I have never once doubted the effectiveness of or the mechanisms of of its claims. Never had too. It’s always done what it’s said it will. Even in multiple cases of where ammonia was at dangerous levels for one reson or another I dosed the S out of it and everyone was fine. Not a single fish lost.

I love scientific/factual evidence for anything and maybe it does work differently in saltwater than fresh. There’s a lot of science done over the past 10 pages but at the basis there was no consensus on the active ingredient/s only conjecture.

Though the one thing I know is a universal truth, reefers tanks/systems seem to crash rapidly and for no good reason when they do. When people cant explain things they sometimes grasp at straws to make sense of things or help them feel better about that given situation.

 

[MnFish1]

Welp…

I keep FW tanks and have used Prime and more recently Safe. I have never once doubted the effectiveness of or the mechanisms of of its claims. Never had too. It’s always done what it’s said it will. Even in multiple cases of where ammonia was at dangerous levels for one reson or another I dosed the S out of it and everyone was fine. Not a single fish lost.

I love scientific/factual evidence for anything and maybe it does work differently in saltwater than fresh. There’s a lot of science done over the past 10 pages but at the basis there was no consensus on the active ingredient/s only conjecture.

Though the one thing I know is a universal truth, reefers tanks/systems seem to crash rapidly and for no good reason when they do. When people cant explain things they sometimes grasp at straws to make sense of things or help them feel better about that given situation.

I don't know what in prime - I agree with you there is a lot of anecdotal evidence for what you say - however, unless there is a controlled experiment showing the same water in 2 tanks with the same ammonia concentration that shows some side effects in a living fish, etc (which I'm not recommending) - its impossible to say one way or the other whether prime 'detoxifies' ammonia, despite all of the claims here. It may, it may not. I have used another product and posted a thread with about 2000 dollars worth of discus that shows at least one product has a near immediate effect (positive) - on moribund fish. (freshwater)

 

[HighlandReef]

I don’t believe for a second that Prime does anything, it’s a glorified water conditioner.
Learned first hand the hard way.
When my tank crashed years ago, the only thing that any of the LFS in my area had in stock was prime. Dosing it did nothing for the ammonia spike that occurred.
Lost my entire tank, everything was dead by morning.
I call BS to Primes claims of their product detox’s or neutralizing ammonia in any way, shape or form.
The only product, I’m aware of that actually works is amquel.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I love scientific/factual evidence for anything and maybe it does work differently in saltwater than fresh. There’s a lot of science done over the past 10 pages but at the basis there was no consensus on the active ingredient/s only conjecture.

It is true that this particular thread is only a scientific conjecture discussion, but the experimental thread is quite convincing that Seachem Prime dies not reduce free ammonia in seawater, even by Seachem’s own suggested way of measuring it.

Does Prime actually "Detoxify" free ammonia, NH3?

This started when @Dan_P was looking at measuring NH3 with seneye and was curious about performance near zero NH3. I suggested trying Prime to artificially zero out the NH3 sensor, and the results were weird... so I checked with my seachem kit. Prime by Seachem is commonly used to treat tap...

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