Post on fish ban from Hawaii have a lot of fake news in them

[Sea Witch]

Post on fish ban from Hawaii have a lot of fake news in them

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I'm surprised more people haven't checked the details on something like this...
Its shocking to see how quickly LFS and online stores were to rip us off. I hope they adjust their pricing as quickly as they blew them up! The fisheries actually asked for more regulation on the commercial fishing license that were not being renewed. Only 41 fisheries of the more than 3000 reported catching any fish. The environmental reviews and other concerns were rectified.... PLUS NONE OF IT HAS STARTED YET!!! Plenty of articles in the "Big Island Now" news-page. . from HI

"While the First Circuit Court’s ruling will again hinder aquarium fishers’ push to keep their industry viable in West Hawai‘i, it won’t do so immediately.

The court recognized in its ruling Friday that shutting off access to aquarium fishing immediately for those with valid CMLs would “…cause economic hardship to aquarium fishers, their families, employees, and vendors.”

Due to this consideration, fishers will be allowed to carry out the practice until their permits run out, which will happen one year after the initial issuance. At that point, the fishers will need to reapply and will be subject to new environmental regulations that put their permits in serious doubt.

https://bigislandnow.com/2020/12/01/...mental-ruling/
https://bigislandnow.com/2021/01/13/...ing-in-hawaii/

https://bigislandnow.com/2020/12/09/...hing-licenses/

 

[SR Reefing]

GG. Hope people paying $500 for yellow tang get some refund.

 

[JumboShrimp]

Well, I can see how an LFS— or just people in general— could get that impression from the first two headlines you linked to:

Court Effectively Ends Aquarium Fishing In West Hawai’i With Environmental Ruling

Judge Bans All Aquarium Fishing In Hawai’i

Not to be contrarian, but if your point is that ‘the factory won’t stop making toilet paper until NEXT week,’ I think people will start stocking up now, no? Just sayin’ .

 

[BZOFIQ]

Any news is good news to bump the prices!

 

[Sea Witch]

I didn't create the headline... and yes you are correct it's misleading unless the person "READS" the article. Which is why I shared them. I'm sorry you have chosen to be a contrarian .... but that's not at all what it's saying.... the people paying for their license to fish are tired of the 2900 other fisher-people getting to fish for free. No limits have been set they only need to RENEW their license and send in an updated review of the environmental report... which according to other articles is pretty easy to obtain.

 

[Thaxxx]

Then who's ripping us off?
The wholesalers, the LFS or both?

 

[ca1ore]

Seems a degree of clarity is lacking. Not fully clear to me when the ban goes into effect. I have noted in a few places here on R2R that people looking for a yellow tang, indeed any Hawaiian caught fish, would be well served by waiting for all the hand wringing and opportunistic pricing to settle. BUT, if for-profit businesses like LFS or online fish sellers list yellow tangs for $450 and people buy them, then I fail to see how that constitutes 'ripping us off'. It's not just the businesses, though I suppose they're convenient villains; I have seen hobbyist adverting their fish for significant premiums. I chatted with a fish wholesaler last week, and he confessed that he's no idea where prices will end up.

I always look to LiveAquaria DD to get a sense of what the market will support. Last week, there was a YT for $550 and a few yellow eye kole tangs for $350-400. None have sold when I checked last night, suggesting that the pricing is too high. Presumably they will reduce the prices, and at some point they will sell establishing the current indifference point.

The other thing to consider is that many Hawaiian fish are also found in other places. Those other places haven't always been well developed because Hawaii was easier and the fish more plentiful. If the price for a YT, for example, settles at $200, then there is greater financial motivation to collect in larger numbers in some of these places. That would help to bolter supply. We shall see ......

 

[Softhammer]

Good find! Such is the way these days, when folks like to freak out and listen to literally anything anyone types and take it as gospel. And then argue their incorrect point with anyone who will listen.....

 

[Acros]

There was someone here who ordered $5000 worth of fish due to the HI fishing ban (and lost all of it).

 

[Ippyroy]

Post on fish ban from Hawaii have a lot of fake news in them

---

I'm surprised more people haven't checked the details on something like this...
Its shocking to see how quickly LFS and online stores were to rip us off. I hope they adjust their pricing as quickly as they blew them up! The fisheries actually asked for more regulation on the commercial fishing license that were not being renewed. Only 41 fisheries of the more than 3000 reported catching any fish. The environmental reviews and other concerns were rectified.... PLUS NONE OF IT HAS STARTED YET!!! Plenty of articles in the "Big Island Now" news-page. . from HI

"While the First Circuit Court’s ruling will again hinder aquarium fishers’ push to keep their industry viable in West Hawai‘i, it won’t do so immediately.

The court recognized in its ruling Friday that shutting off access to aquarium fishing immediately for those with valid CMLs would “…cause economic hardship to aquarium fishers, their families, employees, and vendors.”

Due to this consideration, fishers will be allowed to carry out the practice until their permits run out, which will happen one year after the initial issuance. At that point, the fishers will need to reapply and will be subject to new environmental regulations that put their permits in serious doubt.

https://bigislandnow.com/2020/12/01/...mental-ruling/
https://bigislandnow.com/2021/01/13/...ing-in-hawaii/

https://bigislandnow.com/2020/12/09/...hing-licenses/

All CMLs issued or renewed on Nov. 27, 2020, or later will include terms and conditions that prohibit the take or possession of marine life for commercial aquarium purposes, including the possession of aquarium fishing gear for commercial aquarium purposes, without completing a HEPA review.”
I am pretty sure this says it is illegal to catch fish for aquariums starting now.

 

[kenchilada]

Let’s get even closer to the source. Can anyone find the text of the court outcome?

12/8/20-DLNR DIVISION OF AQUATIC RESOURCES HAS ADDED NEW COURT-ORDERED REQUIREMENTS FOR COMMERCIAL FISHING LICENSES

(HONOLULU) – The DLNR Division of Aquatic Resources (DAR) has updated commercial marine licenses (CML) terms and conditions to reflect a full statewide ban on commercial aquarium fishing until final environmental review, as required by a Nov. 27th First Circuit Court ruling.

dlnr.hawaii.gov

While the final court order may include further details on how DAR should institute the court requirements, DAR has already updated commercial marine licenses (CML) terms and conditions.

This section, (along with related definitions), has been added:

7. It is illegal and a violation of this commercial marine license to:
a. take marine life for commercial aquarium purposes,
b. possess marine life that has been taken for commercial aquarium purposes, or
c. possess aquarium collecting gear in state marine waters for commercial aquarium purposes, without first completing the required environmental review process under the Hawaiʻi Environmental Policy Act (HEPA), HRS Chapter 343.

 

[kenchilada]

Here is HRS-343 on Environmental Impact Statements

https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0343/HRS_0343-.htm

Here is related ruling by First Circuit Court, State of Hawai‘i...

https://earthjustice.org/sites/default/files/files/2020-11-27_order_grant_deny_ps_msj.pdf

 

[shred5]

I didn't create the headline... and yes you are correct it's misleading unless the person "READS" the article. Which is why I shared them. I'm sorry you have chosen to be a contrarian .... but that's not at all what it's saying.... the people paying for their license to fish are tired of the 2900 other fisher-people getting to fish for free. No limits have been set they only need to RENEW their license and send in an updated review of the environmental report... which according to other articles is pretty easy to obtain.

Actually that is why they are saying it is shut down. From everything I am hearing is the report wont happen and they know it will not happen. It is like saying you are for something but really are not because it wont happen anyway. There is not enough fight left. Also one of the last environmental impact study reports was thrown out I think the PIJAC was sayin the last time around 2019 or so.

So basically once permits expire it should be over unless something crazy happens.

I have not been following it as close because it is a matter of time no matter what.
Basically they do not care it all political and those with the money and funding want us shut down. Hobby really has a small voice. The hobby is split and most uneducated in this kind of stuff. They do not understand breeding or how it works, some think magically we replace close to a 1/2 million fish in the hobby through breeding. They see all these clownfish and think it is the same for all saltwater fish. Look at wrasses and how many have been bred in the hobby?

 

[JumboShrimp]

(I’m working on a clown-wrasse hybrid right now.) (Humor!)

 

[SaltISlife]

I have a gold coin worth 1$ ill sell to you for 100$

 

[Timfish]

Well, my supplier can't get any yellow tangs so I don't have to worry about them ripping me off. I do know my supplier, Segrest Farms, has donated $175,000 to help pay for the environmental study and if anybody wants to help here's the link for PIJAC. Discussing this with my salesrep there, they recieved their last shipment last week and will not have any more until things are resolved. There are some still being shipped from Hawaii but they are tangs that were collected before the ban went into effect in mid January and were stockpiled by the collectors.

 

[shred5]

Well, my supplier can't get any yellow tangs so I don't have to worry about them ripping me off. I do know my supplier, Segrest Farms, has donated $175,000 to help pay for the environmental study and if anybody wants to help here's the link for PIJAC. Discussing this with my salesrep there, they recieved their last shipment last week and will not have any more until things are resolved. There are some still being shipped from Hawaii but they are tangs that were collected before the ban went into effect in mid January and were stockpiled by the collectors.

I think the PIJAC is the only hope we have at this point. Maybe some people finally realize this is going to have a major impact on the whole hobby and get together with them. This is something distributors, retailers, hobbyist, wholesalers, forums etc. need to be behind.

But last time they started a study for Hawaii it was just thrown out. I am not sure what happened latter.
I am just starting to feel like they really do not care and want it shut down:

Meanwhile, under the leadership and great financial expense incurred by the Pet Industry Joint Advisory Council (PIJAC), the environmental impact statement process had started. Draft EIS documents were issued in 2019. Then, finalized EIS documents were submitted for review, only to be dismissed by the state’s Board of Land and Natural Resources (BLNR). Fishermen issued urgent pleas for help.

Breaking News: Hawaii's Aquarium Fishery Suffers Another Setback - CORAL Magazine

The Department of Land and Natural Resources is taking immediate steps to comply with a new order issued late Friday from the First Circuit Court, requiring environmental review for issuance of new or renewed annual commercial marine licenses (CMLs) to be used for aquarium fishing purposes.

www.reef2rainforest.com

It wont end here, after Hawaii they will go elsewhere and work on shutting down.
Even places like Biota need to watch out because they are not in the US except Hawaii and the same could happen to Hawaii.
Next step banning all exports because they cant tell difference between wild and captive bred. Reason given, to stop poaching. It is coming wait and see. There goes allot captive bred fish since other than ORA allot of the captive bred clams and fish come from smaller islands with not very stable governments. A little money is dangled in front of them and no more fish and coral.

 

[Acros]

It’s the typical going after the little man, instead of solving the real issue approach.

The impact of this hobby on our coral reefs and fish is negligible compared to the impacts of industrial fishing and environmental pollution.

 

[ReefBeta]

Just let the price rise.

Hawaii is a lost cause because the size of the industry is relatively too small there. The only way for it to regain traction is to have some players to see it as real gold mine and work towards it for the profit. Lowering the price will not be an outcome from it.

Marine fish are ridiculously cheap anyway compared to coral price. An one inch frag that many hobbyists can grow for couple months can outsell the fish that only a couple facilities can culture and take way longer and more effort. Having yellow tang price stay above captivity breed is the best chance for Hawaii fishery to reopen, when people realized they could sell those fish and make a fortune, other than a struggling fisherman.

 

[Ippyroy]

I think the PIJAC is the only hope we have at this point. Maybe some people finally realize this is going to have a major impact on the whole hobby and get together with them. This is something distributors, retailers, hobbyist, wholesalers, forums etc. need to be behind.

But last time they started a study for Hawaii it was just thrown out. I am not sure what happened latter.
I am just starting to feel like they really do not care and want it shut down:

Breaking News: Hawaii's Aquarium Fishery Suffers Another Setback - CORAL Magazine

The Department of Land and Natural Resources is taking immediate steps to comply with a new order issued late Friday from the First Circuit Court, requiring environmental review for issuance of new or renewed annual commercial marine licenses (CMLs) to be used for aquarium fishing purposes.

www.reef2rainforest.com

It wont end here, after Hawaii they will go elsewhere and work on shutting down.
Even places like Biota need to watch out because they are not in the US except Hawaii and the same could happen to Hawaii.
Next step banning all exports because they cant tell difference between wild and captive bred. Reason given, to stop poaching. It is coming wait and see. There goes allot captive bred fish since other than ORA allot of the captive bred clams and fish come from smaller islands with not very stable governments. A little money is dangled in front of them and no more fish and coral.

The report was thrown out because it was pretty much garbage and didn't even attempt to answer the most important questions they wanted answered. You should read the links provided and follow up on a couple of them. There are a few disturbing numbers I saw right off the bat. Over 500 thousand fish collected first year, then the numbers steadily decrease by a significant number each year after. I would like to know why. Was it because they tried to catch less? Maybe they weren't correctly reporting? Fewer fish available to collect? We as a hobby need a more complete and more thorough report before we make up our minds. I have personally seen dramatic decreases in yellow and achilles tang populations in Hawaii. Food comes before anything else. The people of Hawaii take their environment very serious and personal. I understand this. If someone kept coming by your house and cutting a rose off your bush or grabbed a couple of oranges out of the tree in your front yard, wouldn't you be upset? I'd be much happier if you asked and gave me good reason why you need to do it.