Post on fish ban from Hawaii have a lot of fake news in them

Ludders · Feb 9, 2021

Costareefer said:
Supply and demand. It all starts with the exporters. If they put out less they’re gonna charge more and then the wholesaler and so on. If there were hordes of yellow tangs out there for sale no one would be able to charge the ridiculous prices we see on divers den and elsewhere. It’s at the source and they would probably like to not have to sell YTs for 100-150$

Exactly, it's basic economics.
Last week I spoke to a LFS and they are being restricted to 1 a week at the moment, but this supply set to dry up soon.
If supply is choked and demand remains the same, this means that people will pay a higher price for the commodity.

JumboShrimp · Feb 9, 2021

I think the bottom line is that as certain necessary licenses expire/come up for renewal, future proposed and recently enacted regulations may be so onerous as to all but amount to near-zero renewals. But I just skimmed it for the most salient points.

HiFish · Feb 9, 2021

Aloha,

I read through a bit of this thread but did not go through it all. I am a fish wholesaler in Hawaii, who is now out of business. My employees are now on unemployment and looking for work, my collectors have had to try to find other work or have moved to fishing for food. Once a fisherman, always a fisherman.

Hawaii is closed. There is ZERO legal commercial collection of fish happening in the entire state as of January 12th, 2021. Fish collection has been happening until that point, however the entire Kona coast has been closed for several years now and most of you probably know how that went.

I will attach the letters from the state that were sent out to all Commercial Marine License (CML) holders. A CML is required to sell anything that comes out of the water (alive or dead). If you are a CML holder, you can no longer collect anything for aquarium purpose. You can however, collect anything dead and sell it for food or other purposes (don't get me started on this). There are 3,000 CML holders in the state, 41 reported aquarium catch in the last year. Only fisherman interested in collecting aquarium fish are required to complete an environmental assessment. If you want to go and spear a Yellow Eye Kole or Achilles Tang for food and sell it to the market, that's totally fine under your license.

Permits can come back, and people can be allowed to collect again if they can satisfy the Environmental Review process, this has been completed and rejected in Kona and is in process on Oahu. If it is reviewed and accepted, the fisherman that will have a completed study will be able to collect again.

That's it for now. There is ZERO collection happening now. The yellow tangs in the market outside of Biota yellows are it (however some do come from other regions). Hawaiian Endemic species, are no more outside of aqua-cultured specimens. Flame Wrasse, Bandit Angels, Potters Angels, Potters Wrasse, Yellow Eye Kole, Blueline Butterflies (and more) will not be seen in the market again unless something changes or the breeders are successful. Prices went up a little before closure in Hawaii, but we were litereally in business on Monday, and out of business on Tuesday.

my86iroc01 · Feb 9, 2021

My lfs has yellow yangs for $129. And thats double normal prices.

Familyman2010 · Feb 9, 2021

aquariumworks said:
As a reseller I can’t honestly answer this question...
On the wholesale front yellow tangs have been unavailable or extremely over priced.
I have to wonder if it’s the source?

Prior to this ban coral fish (lfs) on Oahu sold yellow tangs for $30 (caught wild). I think in my opinion captive bred is where the price hike comes from.

LimestoneCowboy · Feb 9, 2021

Ippyroy said:
The more I read into the ban, the more I agree with it. The EIS that was submitted failed in answering most of the questions it was supposed to. It seems like the people who were collecting the fish were under reporting. I believe they under reported because the law stipulates that you have to keep the fish alive and healthy until you sell them. By under reporting, it becomes a lot easier to lie about the fish dying under their care. The numbers that were reported are rather staggering to me personally. 500 thousand fish in one year. Many of these fish are capable of living for decades in captivity.
The EIS the court demands is very expensive and would take a long time to do it. If the hobby as a whole wants this ban lifted the best course of action in my opinion would be to donate to an organization that conduct the study for us. I am sure someone can find a grad student at UH that is willing to work on it. ORA or BIOTA might be a good match as well. Just my .02

Agreed. It may not make things as "easy" to purchase for us in the hobby, but if we all truly love this hobby, I would hope that most of us would agree that nature and a thriving reef ecosystem in the wild, is the most important thing above all. Granted there are many other global pressures on reefs around the world, but if it was true that our hobby even filled with as much care as we all show for our tanks, was inflicting some degradation to these marine environments in Hawaii, I have to say that I would certainly feel a degree of guilt. If the ban holds, maybe we can support local economies by visiting and diving/snorkeling.

threebuoys · Feb 9, 2021

Sea Witch said:
Post on fish ban from Hawaii have a lot of fake news in them

I'm surprised more people haven't checked the details on something like this...
Its shocking to see how quickly LFS and online stores were to rip us off. I hope they adjust their pricing as quickly as they blew them up! The fisheries actually asked for more regulation on the commercial fishing license that were not being renewed. Only 41 fisheries of the more than 3000 reported catching any fish. The environmental reviews and other concerns were rectified.... PLUS NONE OF IT HAS STARTED YET!!! Plenty of articles in the "Big Island Now" news-page. . from HI

"While the First Circuit Court’s ruling will again hinder aquarium fishers’ push to keep their industry viable in West Hawai‘i, it won’t do so immediately.

The court recognized in its ruling Friday that shutting off access to aquarium fishing immediately for those with valid CMLs would “…cause economic hardship to aquarium fishers, their families, employees, and vendors.”

Due to this consideration, fishers will be allowed to carry out the practice until their permits run out, which will happen one year after the initial issuance. At that point, the fishers will need to reapply and will be subject to new environmental regulations that put their permits in serious doubt.

https://bigislandnow.com/2020/12/01/...mental-ruling/
https://bigislandnow.com/2021/01/13/...ing-in-hawaii/

https://bigislandnow.com/2020/12/09/...hing-licenses/

If someone else has noticed this and commented, I apologize for being redundant..... Look at the dates the articles were written and posted. The most recent one is dated 01/13/2021 and is the one that says ALL commercial fishing for aquarium fish has been suspended. Article suggesting the ban had not been completely implemented had earlier publication dates.

alton · Feb 9, 2021

If you want to see documentation go to Coral Magazine and look at past issues. As Hifish posted studies have been done and completed but no one cares. They wanted fish collecting banned and they got it. Tourism makes them more money than fish collecting. Same thing happened to Walt Smith.

Josh@BVA · Feb 9, 2021

i think the price jump will still be a thing for awhile. even if "most" of the fisheries are still getting fish im sure that the scale of livestock will still start to dwindle as less and less are available even over the course of the year. and the places that are catching them will now need to update their facility to meet new standards set by the new policy so they will pass that cost along to their customers and along to us in the long run. i think high priced tangs are here to stay for at least the next 2 years.

flyfisher2 · Feb 9, 2021

wanna laugh?
Back in the mid 80's I was in Paramus NJ at an aquarium shop that was selling Yellow Tangs (Med and Large) for $10.00 and I thought they were a bit pricey!!!

Oz_Puffy · Feb 9, 2021

ScottR said:
I grew up in Hawaii and spent most of my life there. To understand how the government works there, you’d have to live there. Hawaii is one of the most secluded places in the world, further away from every continent. They have created many laws “just to be on the safe side”. They changed trash collection from twice a week to once a week and forced everyone to recycle. They banned plastic bags. They even put a bottle deposit on all drink bottles and cans. They then added an additional bottle tax. Sunscreen containing certain chemicals was banned outright to protect the reefs. So if the fishing ban is confusing, don’t be confused. The government is very sloppy in Hawaii and quick to make knee jerk decisions. There are also parts of Hawaii that are 100% protected and have been for years. No fishing, visiting, boating etc.

Off topic, but a lot of those actions you mention, are mainstream in many other countries. Haha there is a big wide world outside of America

BrandonS · Feb 9, 2021

HiFish said:
Aloha,

I read through a bit of this thread but did not go through it all. I am a fish wholesaler in Hawaii, who is now out of business. My employees are now on unemployment and looking for work, my collectors have had to try to find other work or have moved to fishing for food. Once a fisherman, always a fisherman.

Hawaii is closed. There is ZERO legal commercial collection of fish happening in the entire state as of January 12th, 2021. Fish collection has been happening until that point, however the entire Kona coast has been closed for several years now and most of you probably know how that went.

I will attach the letters from the state that were sent out to all Commercial Marine License (CML) holders. A CML is required to sell anything that comes out of the water (alive or dead). If you are a CML holder, you can no longer collect anything for aquarium purpose. You can however, collect anything dead and sell it for food or other purposes (don't get me started on this). There are 3,000 CML holders in the state, 41 reported aquarium catch in the last year. Only fisherman interested in collecting aquarium fish are required to complete an environmental assessment. If you want to go and spear a Yellow Eye Kole or Achilles Tang for food and sell it to the market, that's totally fine under your license.

Permits can come back, and people can be allowed to collect again if they can satisfy the Environmental Review process, this has been completed and rejected in Kona and is in process on Oahu. If it is reviewed and accepted, the fisherman that will have a completed study will be able to collect again.

That's it for now. There is ZERO collection happening now. The yellow tangs in the market outside of Biota yellows are it (however some do come from other regions). Hawaiian Endemic species, are no more outside of aqua-cultured specimens. Flame Wrasse, Bandit Angels, Potters Angels, Potters Wrasse, Yellow Eye Kole, Blueline Butterflies (and more) will not be seen in the market again unless something changes or the breeders are successful. Prices went up a little before closure in Hawaii, but we were litereally in business on Monday, and out of business on Tuesday.

Disappointed to here that the study was completed as asked and they rejected anyways. Like jump through this hoop. Oh... Didn't think you could do that... The answer is still no. Guess emotions win out.

My best wishes for you, your family, your employees and there families.

JumboShrimp · Feb 9, 2021

It's good you chimed in here with an authoritative voice of experience. Our thoughts are with you, your business, and your employees.

Joe Rice · Feb 9, 2021

HiFish said:
Aloha,

I read through a bit of this thread but did not go through it all. I am a fish wholesaler in Hawaii, who is now out of business. My employees are now on unemployment and looking for work, my collectors have had to try to find other work or have moved to fishing for food. Once a fisherman, always a fisherman.

Hawaii is closed. There is ZERO legal commercial collection of fish happening in the entire state as of January 12th, 2021. Fish collection has been happening until that point, however the entire Kona coast has been closed for several years now and most of you probably know how that went.

I will attach the letters from the state that were sent out to all Commercial Marine License (CML) holders. A CML is required to sell anything that comes out of the water (alive or dead). If you are a CML holder, you can no longer collect anything for aquarium purpose. You can however, collect anything dead and sell it for food or other purposes (don't get me started on this). There are 3,000 CML holders in the state, 41 reported aquarium catch in the last year. Only fisherman interested in collecting aquarium fish are required to complete an environmental assessment. If you want to go and spear a Yellow Eye Kole or Achilles Tang for food and sell it to the market, that's totally fine under your license.

Permits can come back, and people can be allowed to collect again if they can satisfy the Environmental Review process, this has been completed and rejected in Kona and is in process on Oahu. If it is reviewed and accepted, the fisherman that will have a completed study will be able to collect again.

That's it for now. There is ZERO collection happening now. The yellow tangs in the market outside of Biota yellows are it (however some do come from other regions). Hawaiian Endemic species, are no more outside of aqua-cultured specimens. Flame Wrasse, Bandit Angels, Potters Angels, Potters Wrasse, Yellow Eye Kole, Blueline Butterflies (and more) will not be seen in the market again unless something changes or the breeders are successful. Prices went up a little before closure in Hawaii, but we were litereally in business on Monday, and out of business on Tuesday.

@Sea Witch, given this new information I think it would be helpful for you to update your original post with a link to Hifish's post #63 above.

threebuoys · Feb 9, 2021

Joe Rice said:
@Sea Witch, given this new information I think it would be helpful for you to update your original post with a link to Hifish's post #63 above.

@Sea Witch, this is clear if you read the dates of the articles you linked in the first post. The 1/13/2021 states the Ban is in full effect. The other articles were prior to the ban.

ScottR · Feb 9, 2021

Oz_Puffy said:
Off topic, but a lot of those actions you mention, are mainstream in many other countries. Haha there is a big wide world outside of America

Agreed but just giving insight into the decision. It’s no surprise. Banning sunscreen though... not sure that’s done elsewhere.

HiFish · Feb 9, 2021

BrandonS said:
Disappointed to here that the study was completed as asked and they rejected anyways. Like jump through this hoop. Oh... Didn't think you could do that... The answer is still no. Guess emotions win out.

My best wishes for you, your family, your employees and there families.

To be clear, Kona's study was rejected. The industry is treating Kona and Oahu as two fisheries. Kona has much more data and has been proven to be a sustainable fishery with years of science. There were a few things that the state didn't like about the study that I feel were obvious and should have been addressed. Hopefully they will get another shot. Oahu has not been completed and submitted yet.

Thank you for the well wishes. Covid-19 has also brought strain on the industry here because of lack of flights. Many of the other south pacific species many of you know (Flame Angels, Bartlett Anthias, Griffisi Angels et) have not been imported/exported since March. Hopefully the flights can come back and we can at least have these fish around again. (this is why the cost of those fish have increased, not to mention freight prices have gone through the roof on several international carriers.)

JumboShrimp said:
It's good you chimed in here with an authoritative voice of experience. Our thoughts are with you, your business, and your employees.

I've kept my mouth shut for a while (I've lurked for a long time but forgot my log in and even had to make a new account). But seeing someone say that people were just gouging and that we weren't really shut down made me feel I should say something and set the record straight. There are a lot of unemployed people here, and now fisherman now struggling to make ends meet, pay for their equipment, boats, vehciles and warehouse space plus, it isn't cheap to live here. While Hawaii is fairing well on Covid cases, our economy is going to take a long time to bounce back. Tourism is making a slow comeback, but places still aren't at 100% and jobs are hard to come by. This ruling putting more people out of work on BS emotional reasoning is quite frustrating.

HiFish · Feb 9, 2021

alton said:
If you want to see documentation go to Coral Magazine and look at past issues. As Hifish posted studies have been done and completed but no one cares. They wanted fish collecting banned and they got it. Tourism makes them more money than fish collecting. Same thing happened to Walt Smith.

This is it.