Powder Blue tang diagnosis please

[JCATL]

Can I get a diagnosis on my PBT please? As of last night he seemed perfectly fine, was swimming and eating like normal. This morning he looks like this, is listless and not eating. None of what you see on his body was visible yesterday.

No new additions to the tank. He's been with us for about 8 weeks and his only tank mate is another fish that came from the same tank at the LFS. Other than slightly low alk, parameters are all normal.

THanks!

 

[Uncle99]

Explain diet and post parameters.

 

[Swiss Frag Reefer]

@JCATL Definitely looks like a disease most likely the new fish brought into your tank.

Obviously the recommendation would be to take it out of your tank into a QT tank and look into copper treatment or so which is superbly described by "HUMBLEFISH" just google it.

 

[ScottB]

@Jay Hemdal is my go to guy for fish diagnosis and treatment.

 

[JCATL]

Explain diet and post parameters.

nori + frozen hikari mega marine algae and mysis that he devours when we feed his tankmate.

parameters as of last night:
nh3 = 0
no3 = 2
no2 = 0
po4 = .02
Dkh = 7
Salinity = 1.025
ph = 8.3
temp = 78-79

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Off the cuff, given the picture and the species involved, this is marine ich, Cryptocaryon. However, the rapid onset of symptoms doesn't quite match. It is pretty common though, for people to miss the early signs of ich, making it seem to just show up.

A video of the fish would help me rule out velvet.

If it is ich, you won't be able to treat it at this point in a display tank with invertebrates - you need to use copper or hyposalinity, and neither of those treatments can be done with inverts in the tank.

Jay

 

[JCATL]

Off the cuff, given the picture and the species involved, this is marine ich, Cryptocaryon. However, the rapid onset of symptoms doesn't quite match. It is pretty common though, for people to miss the early signs of ich, making it seem to just show up.

A video of the fish would help me rule out velvet.

If it is ich, you won't be able to treat it at this point in a display tank with invertebrates - you need to use copper or hyposalinity, and neither of those treatments can be done with inverts in the tank.

Jay

Thanks Jay, I'll get a video and add to the thread.

There are no inverts in the tank and other than a flame Hawkfish there are only a few coral frags that can be removed to another tank. I have both copper power and rally pro on hand.

Question on copper power, does it negatively impact tank biome and bacteria? Not that it matters in this case, you have to do what you have to do, but I've been curious so it's a good time to ask.

 

[vetteguy53081]

+1 on video as I am suspecting ich based on the size of the dots and leaning towards crytocaryon which is marine ich

 

[Swiss Frag Reefer]

Off the cuff, given the picture and the species involved, this is marine ich, Cryptocaryon. However, the rapid onset of symptoms doesn't quite match. It is pretty common though, for people to miss the early signs of ich, making it seem to just show up.

A video of the fish would help me rule out velvet.

If it is ich, you won't be able to treat it at this point in a display tank with invertebrates - you need to use copper or hyposalinity, and neither of those treatments can be done with inverts in the tank.

Jay

KUDOS @Jay Hemdal , I followed you already for years (in the forums) with your advice and seeing your dedication and instantly always jumping in providing your advice and experience to us reefers is quite special. Keep up the good work, the fish community can be thankful to have you!

 

[biguebs]

You don’t want to put copper in a tank that you will ever put corals back into. Once the copper hits your rock, that’s a QT rock going forward.

 

[JCATL]

@Jay Hemdal @vetteguy53081

Video as requested, thanks again!

 

[vetteguy53081]

@Jay Hemdal @vetteguy53081

Video as requested, thanks again!

Its not only marine ich but I am concerned with the sideways swimming as this fish is in distress and i mention that because it signifies treatment can go both ways- You can irradicate the ich and fish gets well or you can treat and fish stresses further with poor end result but treatment is warranted either way.
A freshwater dip will offer temporary relief IF fish is not breathing heavily. After dip, You will need to place fish in Quarantine tank and treat with Coppersafe or Copper Power at therapeutic level 2.25-2.5 For a FULL 30 days (do not interrupt this 30 day period) monitored by a reliable Copper Test kit such as Hanna Brand- No API brand. Also monitor Ammonia levels while in quarantine with a reliable test kit and add aeration during treatment using an air stone.
The display tank will have to be kept fishless (FALLOW) for 6-8 weeks to assure the existing parasites go through their life cycle without a host fish and die off
A quarantine tank can be as simple as a starter kit from Walmart which most of the needed essentials.

 

[JCATL]

Its not only marine ich but I am concerned with the sideways swimming as this fish is in distress and i mention that because it signifies treatment can go both ways- You can irradicate the ich and fish gets well or you can treat and fish stresses further with poor end result but treatment is warranted either way.
A freshwater dip will offer temporary relief IF fish is not breathing heavily. After dip, You will need to place fish in Quarantine tank and treat with Coppersafe or Copper Power at therapeutic level 2.25-2.5 For a FULL 30 days (do not interrupt this 30 day period) monitored by a reliable Copper Test kit such as Hanna Brand- No API brand. Also monitor Ammonia levels while in quarantine with a reliable test kit and add aeration during treatment using an air stone.
The display tank will have to be kept fishless (FALLOW) for 6-8 weeks to assure the existing parasites go through their life cycle without a host fish and die off
A quarantine tank can be as simple as a starter kit from Walmart which most of the needed essentials.

Thank you, he does look to be breathing heavily and since getting the video (the last 15-20 mins) he's no longer swimming and has settled to the bottom. I have a 10g/hob that I've used for QT before and will set that up with copper power.

the most difficult part will be getting the hawkfish out of the display.

Thanks for the advice, much appreciated.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

@Jay Hemdal @vetteguy53081

Video as requested, thanks again!

Well, I can't rule out velvet 100%, but this does look like end stage ich. What @vetteguy53081 said will help in either case....assuming the fish isn't already too far gone (and it looks like it might be, sorry!)

Jay

 

[Cichlid Dad]

Thanks Jay, I'll get a video and add to the thread.

There are no inverts in the tank and other than a flame Hawkfish there are only a few coral frags that can be removed to another tank. I have both copper power and rally pro on hand.

Question on copper power, does it negatively impact tank biome and bacteria? Not that it matters in this case, you have to do what you have to do, but I've been curious so it's a good time to ask.

Hello, from what I understand, if you use cooper, the rocks and sand in the tank can never be used in a reef tank again. I may be wrong, but check into it

 

[vetteguy53081]

Thank you, he does look to be breathing heavily and since getting the video (the last 15-20 mins) he's no longer swimming and has settled to the bottom. I have a 10g/hob that I've used for QT before and will set that up with copper power.

the most difficult part will be getting the hawkfish out of the display.

Thanks for the advice, much appreciated.

So sorry to see this. Moribund state is kicking in which is similar to comatose and once ich is in its gill, the outcome often dim
For hawk- As you know, they love food. I just caught my niger trigger Thursday night in 11 minutes. Fish trap works always. I baited it with brine shrimp and LRS chunk and allowed fish to go in and eat. An hour later I baited it again and the food lover (your hawk and my niger ) went in and I released the trap door.

 

[JCATL]

Thanks for the advice everyone, especially @Jay Hemdal and @vetteguy53081. Unfortunately he didn’t make it long enough to even get to QT. Fallow we go, thanks again!

 

[vetteguy53081]

Thanks for the advice everyone, especially @Jay Hemdal and @vetteguy53081. Unfortunately he didn’t make it long enough to even get to QT. Fallow we go, thanks again!

Aww man - so sorry to hear

 

[ScottB]

Thanks for the advice everyone, especially @Jay Hemdal and @vetteguy53081. Unfortunately he didn’t make it long enough to even get to QT. Fallow we go, thanks again!

PBT are the most susceptible fish IME. My LFS almost refuses to stock them (he has a 1 week guarantee) but he got one for me. It has had ich once but managed through it. Many do not. Sorry for your loss.
Other fish seem to be able to hammer through it repeatedly. I speculate it is because they are such high energy fish -- at least mine is the most energetic even after lights out. When they stop eating... they just have no reserve. I have a 14 year old hippo that he been through heck several times. Still swimming but blind in one eye.