Practical Ich advice

Jay Hemdal

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Any experience with Imagitarium Parasite Remedy? I know PetCo is probably unpopular on this forum, but they were the only place open last night when I went out. I did a 12 gallon water change and am dosing as directed (50 percent dose 12 hours apart). I'm sure it's Snake Oil, but figured it was better than not trying it. Your idea of moving some over... Won't they just get it again when they survive and come back? That's my worry with it.
I’ve never used it, I won’t put any chemicals in my aquarium if the vendor won’t disclose the ingredients. I did some digging and it apparently just contains citrus and neem oil.
Jay
 
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TimHazekamp

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I’ve never used it, I won’t put any chemicals in my aquarium if the vendor won’t disclose the ingredients. I did some digging and it apparently just contains citrus and neem oil.
Jay
I am expecting it won't work. But, those stores probably do have a ton of experience treating sick fish. Worker said he's used it with great success. Not clear if that was fresh or salt water being treated. This hobby hasn't changed much since 25 years ago when I was last in it, just got back in a year ago. Had really hoped there would be better treatment options in that time. These were my last fish I planned to add into the tank too. ☹️
 

FastandCurious

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What are you water levels? I know every one on here has a story of what worked for them. I am fairly new to the sw hobby just under a yr in. But as soon as I started my 70gal literally my first fish came w ich. Back then I didn't know how important it was to QT ur fish. But after reading and watching several vids, I came across one that solved his ich problem with one thing. Clean Water. I swear I thought it was too obvious, but once I got my numbers close to perfect as I could I then did a water change every other day. Started off big with about a 40% change then went down less and less. As my water and oxygen were replenished every time, my fishes immune system got better and I haven't had a single outbreak since then. I do truly believe it's dang near impossible to have a tank completely 100% ich free. And if your out there and did the 75 days fishless tank round, I applaud you (it just wasn't an option for me ;Shifty) But as soon as ur fishes immune systems fight it off, they can become completely healthy again and never get it again. I can say that with confidence from my experiences. It saved my tank and probably my sanity lol. I am a believer that clean water can solve almost any tank bacteria/sickness/ & many other issues.
Grab a big bucket of salt and turn on that rodi and in 2 weeks you will see a big difference. I will try to find the vid and link it on here for you. Good Luck my friend!
 
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TimHazekamp

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What are you water levels? I know every one on here has a story of what worked for them. I am fairly new to the sw hobby just under a yr in. But as soon as I started my 70gal literally my first fish came w ich. Back then I didn't know how important it was to QT ur fish. But after reading and watching several vids, I came across one that solved his ich problem with one thing. Clean Water. I swear I thought it was too obvious, but once I got my numbers close to perfect as I could I then did a water change every other day. Started off big with about a 40% change then went down less and less. As my water and oxygen were replenished every time, my fishes immune system got better and I haven't had a single outbreak since then. I do truly believe it's dang near impossible to have a tank completely 100% ich free. And if your out there and did the 75 days fishless tank round, I applaud you (it just wasn't an option for me ;Shifty) But as soon as ur fishes immune systems fight it off, they can become completely healthy again and never get it again. I can say that with confidence from my experiences. It saved my tank and probably my sanity lol. I am a believer that clean water can solve almost any tank bacteria/sickness/ & many other issues.
Grab a big bucket of salt and turn on that rodi and in 2 weeks you will see a big difference. I will try to find the vid and link it on here for you. Good Luck my friend!
Yeah. Thanks. That's probably what I'm going to try, with continued medicated food and nori, and herbal options. I expect to lose a few, just hoping to avoid a wipe out now.
 

FastandCurious

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Yeah. Thanks. That's probably what I'm going to try, with continued medicated food and nori, and herbal options. I expect to lose a few, just hoping to avoid a wipe out now.
Fish are stronger than we think. As long as they are still eating, they can usually fight off the disease. Also, lowering the salinity and raising the temp to about 80 helps get the ich to jump off the fish faster. Here's a great article that helped me understand a lot better when I was dealing with it.

 

Jay Hemdal

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Fish are stronger than we think. As long as they are still eating, they can usually fight off the disease. Also, lowering the salinity and raising the temp to about 80 helps get the ich to jump off the fish faster. Here's a great article that helped me understand a lot better when I was dealing with it.

Just to clarify, raising the temperature doesn’t work for Cryptocaryon, it is older advice from people dealing with freshwater ich. Raising the temperature with marine ich and having no coinciding treatment will just make the fish sicker faster.
Jay
 

AcanthurusRex

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I don’t have crypto in the tank. Never will.
It is hard not to be totally condescending when the only legitimate advice is dismissed in favor of snake oil and conjecture.
If you want to go out on a limb then why not H2O2 and a big UV. Since crypto buries itself so deep in the epidermis baths are not that effective for immediate relief.
 
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TimHazekamp

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I don’t have crypto in the tank. Never will.
It is hard not to be totally condescending when the only legitimate advice is dismissed in favor of snake oil and conjecture.
If you want to go out on a limb then why not H2O2 and a big UV. Since crypto buries itself so deep in the epidermis baths are not that effective for immediate relief.
I've got a 24W and 5W UV in tank currently. Have thought of peroxide, but no idea how you'd dose that for the tank.
 
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TimHazekamp

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Higher temperature will drop dissolved oxygen, and increase stress on fish also as Jay pointed out you increase the parasites.
Anyone ever try lower temperatures with ich? ☹️ At least the oxygen would go up. Intended as a joke. Unless someone tried it and discovered the holy grail.
 

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I am unaware of anyone being able to eradicate ick with H2O2 only. With luck only the free swimming Theron could be sensitive. A whole tank UV sterilizer could be helpful in decreasing the free swimming parasites. I could not open the video, but Jay noted that the parasite load is now just overwhelming and no immune system in the world can catch up here. It’s a tank-not the ocean and this parasite increases in load by the factor of around x200 each cycle. I am sorry, there is no good news here.
 

Jay Hemdal

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Fish are stronger than we think. As long as they are still eating, they can usually fight off the disease. Also, lowering the salinity and raising the temp to about 80 helps get the ich to jump off the fish faster. Here's a great article that helped me understand a lot better when I was dealing with it.

Oh, that article is full of errors and partial truths- don’t rely on it! Right from the start they give the incorrect scientific name for Cryptocaryon! Their hypo level isn’t low enough to control Cryptocaryon, and comparing it to the human cold isn’t realistic- colds do not cause 100% mortality if untreated.
Jay
 
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TimHazekamp

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Oh, that article is full of errors and partial truths- don’t rely on it! Right from the start they give the incorrect scientific name for Cryptocaryon! Their hypo level isn’t low enough to control Cryptocaryon, and comparing it to the human cold isn’t realistic- colds do not cause 100% mortality if untreated.
Jay
Well, after three deaths Sunday I tore out all the rocks tonight and moved 6 fish into my 29 gallon tank. Majestic Angelfish, foxface, atlantic Blue Tang, purple Tang, bluehead wrasse, and midas blenny. I left the spotted mandarin, sixline wrasse, neon gobies (2), and court jester gobies (2) in the 125. Coral beauty angel completely disappeared, until I put the rock back in, then out he came, left it alone. Hoping for the best. Couple questions Jay - do you think those 6 fish can live 76 days in a 29 gallon? And, with the fish I listed still in the 125, how likely will the ich parasite load be reduced to manageable in 76 days if they do? Still going to treat the 125 with the Petco medication, and run the UV sterilizers in it. Also, my HOB QT filter has a built in skimmer, I'd like to run it with the fish load in there, but not sure if you can run a skimmer with copper safe. Appreciate your thoughts.
 

Jay Hemdal

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Having a tank lay fallow only works if there are no fish in it. Even a single susceptible fish in the DT changes the whole process to one of ich management. That's not to say that ich management doesn't work, but it isn't the same as control.

I can't say how the six fish will fare in the 29 - too many variables. The main thing of course is to maintain the ammonia level below 0.05 mg/l. Yes, you can run a skimmer with copper.

I hate to be a downer here, but once fish loss has occurred due to ich, even prompt treatment may not be quick enough to prevent additional losses.

Jay
 

AbjectMaelstroM

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Fish are stronger than we think. As long as they are still eating, they can usually fight off the disease. Also, lowering the salinity and raising the temp to about 80 helps get the ich to jump off the fish faster. Here's a great article that helped me understand a lot better when I was dealing with it.


Pleaee don't follow the information in this as it is riddled with misinformation.

You already started on the process of removing fish, might as well follow through. Get a bigger tank, a 20L or even better, 40B (check petco for pricing). A 40B setup should cost significantly less than replacing all the fish.

As for fallow period, the whole point is to have a fishless tank... So leaving any fish at all defeats the point. Leaving fish and "treating" with "medication" that is unlikely to have any positive effect are just two half-measures that don't add up to one useful measure.

Remove all your fish to appropriate size QT. Treat the fish with copper, chloroquine phosphate, or transfer method (would require additional tanks) and leave DT fallow (completely fishless) for 76 days.
 
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TimHazekamp

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Having a tank lay fallow only works if there are no fish in it. Even a single susceptible fish in the DT changes the whole process to one of ich management. That's not to say that ich management doesn't work, but it isn't the same as control.

I can't say how the six fish will fare in the 29 - too many variables. The main thing of course is to maintain the ammonia level below 0.05 mg/l. Yes, you can run a skimmer with copper.

I hate to be a downer here, but once fish loss has occurred due to ich, even prompt treatment may not be quick enough to prevent additional losses.

Jay
Since it's going to be in the ich management category, is the QT time for those that survive less than 76 days?
 

Jay Hemdal

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Since it's going to be in the ich management category, is the QT time for those that survive less than 76 days?
I use 45 days beyond the day the last symptoms were seen- but that is just based on experience, not an actual study.
Jay
 
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TimHazekamp

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Thanks Jay. I don't want to torture them longer than needed.
Jay - some follow up. Lately I've noticed my Majestic Angelfish is not eating. He swims through the "cloud" of food when I put it into the tank, and swims up to and even looks to be smelling the nori on the clip, but I never see him bite it. He's starting to look visibly thinner. I've heard of copper being an appetite suppressant, and they seem to be clear of the ick, so I did a small (4 gallon) change yesterday without replacement of copper, and put carbon back into the HOB filter to start to drop the levels. There's been a lot of aggression from the purple Tang towards the foxface and the wrasse, but not seen him go after the angel. I'm wondering if should consider moving the angel back sooner - ick is a concern, but so is starvation at this point in time. I'm offering nori, spiralina flakes, regular flakes, nori pellets, regular pellets, frozen foods (brine, mysis, krill, squid, carnivore cuisine, etc.). He's not going for any of it... Growing some live brine to try as well, should be ready tonight or tomorrow. Just curious on your thoughts here on Best chances. Thanks in advance.
 

Jay Hemdal

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Jay - some follow up. Lately I've noticed my Majestic Angelfish is not eating. He swims through the "cloud" of food when I put it into the tank, and swims up to and even looks to be smelling the nori on the clip, but I never see him bite it. He's starting to look visibly thinner. I've heard of copper being an appetite suppressant, and they seem to be clear of the ick, so I did a small (4 gallon) change yesterday without replacement of copper, and put carbon back into the HOB filter to start to drop the levels. There's been a lot of aggression from the purple Tang towards the foxface and the wrasse, but not seen him go after the angel. I'm wondering if should consider moving the angel back sooner - ick is a concern, but so is starvation at this point in time. I'm offering nori, spiralina flakes, regular flakes, nori pellets, regular pellets, frozen foods (brine, mysis, krill, squid, carnivore cuisine, etc.). He's not going for any of it... Growing some live brine to try as well, should be ready tonight or tomorrow. Just curious on your thoughts here on Best chances. Thanks in advance.
That's a tough call! No rapid breathing seen? Are you sure the angel's eyesight isn't affected? If you wave your hands outside the tank, does it react? If not, then I would worry about that, but if it shies away, then eyesight isn't the issue. At this point, since the fish *had* been feeding and now it is not, combined with no other symptoms, I would consider moving it into a better environment, one with a stable biofilter and no copper.

Jay
 

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