Prazi gold not working?

[Spare time]

Here is just some of the snake oil. They take one nugget of truth and exaggerate it to the point of it becoming blatantly false. Seachem isn't the only company that does this, but they are one of the worse ones.

- Cupramine is EFFECTIVE against flukes when it has little to no effect.
- Prime "detoxifies" ammonia when they admit that all it does is convert NH3 to NH4 and chemists on this forum have failed to verify that even that claim actually happens.
- Matrix has superior surface area to other filtration and is 100% reef safe (LR has more and matrix leaches aluminum which is not reef safe long term).
- fish can absorb metroplex and cure internal parasites, when most of the time is only effective when consumed at proper weight dosing in medicated food.
- metroplex is an EFFECTIVE treatment against ich and velvet when it has no proven success in treating velvet outbreaks that I have ever found and is objectively inferior to copper.

I think you might be mixing up the matrix aluminum with phosguard. Unless I missed thread somewhere? Matrix is just pumice stone.

 

[ZombieEngineer]

I think you might be mixing up the matrix aluminum with phosguard. Unless I missed thread somewhere? Matrix is just pumice stone.

It is a common issue with matrix and marinepure, both of which are aluminum silicate. Something in a reef tank converts this to free aluminum and silicate. Exactly what is still up in the air, but ICP sees dangerous levels in tanks that use it at seachems or marinepures recommended amounts. Seems to be okay if you just use a little in your sump and only gives elevated levels rather than toxic.

The real problem is they say it is reef safe then recommend an amount that makes it not so and either didn't do their due diligence and actually analyze its effects over time, or intentionally withheld it from the public.

 

[MnFish1]

Just look at Randy Holmes Farley's disputes with them about phosguard leaching aluminum. Or how they don't seem to understand how prime works. Or how you can't easily just feed fish medicine with focus. Or how metroplex isn't known to do anything for ich despite them claiming it to be an marine ich medicine. Or how their two part isn't truly a two part as it can't be dosed evenly in a 1:1 ratio. I'm not going to do the info searching for you as you very well know how to use this website. It is also fairly common knowledge with frequent users on this forum that seachem (and a whole list of other companies) are not honest or don't understand their products very well (or do and won't tell us as they may be lying about the effectiveness). This is something that plagues the hobby and everyone in this hobby should be cautious when it comes to a company trying to sell you things. To avoid derailing this thread any further, I can continue this discussion with you on another thread if you'd lile

Food for thought - metronidazole is active against cryptocaryon and velvet - velvet less so. It is used in numerous products - (that are listed on the FDA website) - that claim to be effective against both. Note effective doesn't necessarily mean 'eradicate' - but they may allow them fish to recover - and develop some version of immunity.

There are a number of scientific articles that suggest varying success against CI and Velvet - with nearly every article suggesting that copper is the proper primary treatment.

There is no rule that '2 part' NEEDS to be dosed 1:1. The seachem product - as I understand it - is designed to have the same effect as two 2 Part. If the results are the same - IMHO - it doesn't matter - right? The goal is replacing Ca and Alkalinity - and Kalk does the same thing.

Having said that, IMHO - (as you implied) - if you looked scientifically at 90% of the products sold for reef tanks there would be no benefit shown. Yet - 50% of reefers use an individual product - and swear by them (and am equal number say they are snake oil). Again - IMHO - my comment is basically to agree with you which is that - its not 'Seachem' its nearly every company that has poor 'proof' or documentation of the effectiveness of their products.

PS - I'm only mentioning this because I think the OP has a solution to his problem. Not to derail or start a debate about the benefits or detriments of various products

 

[Spare time]

It is a common issue with matrix and marinepure, both of which are aluminum silicate. Something in a reef tank converts this to free aluminum and silicate. Exactly what is still up in the air, but ICP sees dangerous levels in tanks that use it at seachems or marinepures recommended amounts. Seems to be okay if you just use a little in your sump and only gives elevated levels rather than toxic.

The real problem is they say it is reef safe then recommend an amount that makes it not so and either didn't do their due diligence and actually analyze its effects over time, or intentionally withheld it from the public.

Matrix isn't the same material

Food for thought - metronidazole is active against cryptocaryon and velvet - velvet less so. It is used in numerous products - (that are listed on the FDA website) - that claim to be effective against both. Note effective doesn't necessarily mean 'eradicate' - but they may allow them fish to recover - and develop some version of immunity.

There are a number of scientific articles that suggest varying success against CI and Velvet - with nearly every article suggesting that copper is the proper primary treatment.

There is no rule that '2 part' NEEDS to be dosed 1:1. The seachem product - as I understand it - is designed to have the same effect as two 2 Part. If the results are the same - IMHO - it doesn't matter - right? The goal is replacing Ca and Alkalinity - and Kalk does the same thing.

Having said that, IMHO - (as you implied) - if you looked scientifically at 90% of the products sold for reef tanks there would be no benefit shown. Yet - 50% of reefers use an individual product - and swear by them (and am equal number say they are snake oil). Again - IMHO - my comment is basically to agree with you which is that - its not 'Seachem' its nearly every company that has poor 'proof' or documentation of the effectiveness of their products.

PS - I'm only mentioning this because I think the OP has a solution to his problem. Not to derail or start a debate about the benefits or detriments of various products

They claim it can be dosed 1:1 but the levels will be off if you do that. But yeah I agree lets not derail this any further lol

 

[Spare time]

It is a common issue with matrix and marinepure, both of which are aluminum silicate. Something in a reef tank converts this to free aluminum and silicate. Exactly what is still up in the air, but ICP sees dangerous levels in tanks that use it at seachems or marinepures recommended amounts. Seems to be okay if you just use a little in your sump and only gives elevated levels rather than toxic.

The real problem is they say it is reef safe then recommend an amount that makes it not so and either didn't do their due diligence and actually analyze its effects over time, or intentionally withheld it from the public.

I pm'd you my question

 

[ZombieEngineer]

Matrix isn't the same material

Except they are. Marinepure is man-made aluminum silicate ( aka pumice stone), matrix is mined aluminum silicate. If anything matrix is the more dangerous of the two because they could inadvertently mine things that aren't pumice stone into the mix.

 

[SGFishFanatic]

Hi guys, im back thanks for all the inputs heres a kinda sad/ worrying update
Day 1_4
Smaller Fish had long stringy poop with white parts, translucent and white parts

The female (bigger one is eating and pooping well) solid poop no translucent parts

So im really worried about the smaller guy cus he hasnt eaten in 6 day hes getting skinnier(stomach is cave in) and his breathing is laboured

Day 6
And today i noticed white lesions on him, I thought it may be brook

White lesions on his face + body , kinda too big to be ich

So immediately separated the two fishes into 2 clean QT tanks 100% water change

Now theyre both in plain saltwater no meds

Ive read online that you need formaldehyde ( but i doubt i have access to that where i live , im in Singapore here)

The fishes looks pretty bad still swimming , but i think if its really brook i may lose him.
Plus theyre both wild caught fish so theyre more sucep to brook if im not wrong

im hoping i can save the big one at least

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hi guys, im back thanks for all the inputs heres a kinda sad/ worrying update
Day 1_4
Smaller Fish had long stringy poop with white parts, translucent and white parts

The female (bigger one is eating and pooping well) solid poop no translucent parts

So im really worried about the smaller guy cus he hasnt eaten in 6 day hes getting skinnier(stomach is cave in) and his breathing is laboured

Day 6
And today i noticed white lesions on him, I thought it may be brook

White lesions on his face + body , kinda too big to be ich

So immediately separated the two fishes into 2 clean QT tanks 100% water change

Now theyre both in plain saltwater no meds

Ive read online that you need formaldehyde ( but i doubt i have access to that where i live , im in Singapore here)

The fishes looks pretty bad still swimming , but i think if its really brook i may lose him.
Plus theyre both wild caught fish so theyre more sucep to brook if im not wrong

im hoping i can save the big one at least

Stringy, clear feces is often a sign of starvation, what you are seeing is mucus with no digested food in it.

Brooklynella is common in clownfish, visually, it shows up as white mucus patches on the skin, sometimes looking like it is peeling away. Lethargy, rapid breathing and not eating are also symptoms. Formalin is touch to find, but is the best treatment. Can you get Ruby Reef Rally Pro? That might work.

Jay

 

[SGFishFanatic]

Stringy, clear feces is often a sign of starvation, what you are seeing is mucus with no digested food in it.

Brooklynella is common in clownfish, visually, it shows up as white mucus patches on the skin, sometimes looking like it is peeling away. Lethargy, rapid breathing and not eating are also symptoms. Formalin is touch to find, but is the best treatment. Can you get Ruby Reef Rally Pro? That might work.

Jay

Hi, i dont think i can get reef rally pro here , can i use quick cure instead ? If i do whats the dosage like for a bath , i believe the formaldehyde concentration is 18.7



heres some pics of the bigger one , she is eating well, breathing looks normal, swimming is normal as well

just that small lighter colour patch I noticed in the pics (circled red) , is this the beggining signs of brook ? or am I being paranoid

Theres a high chance it may be brook because they did share the same tank for the first 4 days before i seperated them, the smaller one did pass on

Smaller clownfish had mucus like stuff on its head on eyes, didnt eat for 6 days and has sporadic swimming im pretty sure this is brook

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Quick Cure *might* work as 24 bath, but it has malachite green in it, you shouldn’t use that in a short term, high dose bath like you can with just formalin alone.
Catching Brook as it starts up is tough because the symptoms start off so mild. I can’t really tell from the photo if that is Brook…the fish looks like it is holding its fins well, not droopy….

Jay

 

[SGFishFanatic]

Quick Cure *might* work as 24 bath, but it has malachite green in it, you shouldn’t use that in a short term, high dose bath like you can with just formalin alone.
Catching Brook as it starts up is tough because the symptoms start off so mild. I can’t really tell from the photo if that is Brook…the fish looks like it is holding its fins well, not droopy….

Jay

Hi Jay, sorry for the poor pics the fish really does not want to stay still, I think ill just observe for now, I did some more digging around a lfs in my area does stock red ruby reef pro, so Ill dip her in that infher condition worsens. for the dip do I follow the recommended dose on the bottle?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hi Jay, sorry for the poor pics the fish really does not want to stay still, I think ill just observe for now, I did some more digging around a lfs in my area does stock red ruby reef pro, so Ill dip her in that infher condition worsens. for the dip do I follow the recommended dose on the bottle?

Yes, I would follow the instructions on the bottle.

Jay

 

[SGFishFanatic]

just wondering, is there a reason reef rally pro is used as a bath rather then a longer term treatment in the QT tank?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

just wondering, is there a reason reef rally pro is used as a bath rather then a longer term treatment in the QT tank?

I think that using Rally Pro as a dip is also "off label use". However, it is formalin and acriflavine, and both of those can be treated on a concentration versus time schedule, where malachite green should not.

Jay

 

[SGFishFanatic]

Hi update on the clownfish, the male passed on, for the female i did a 90 min formalin dip-1 capful per gallon based on some other threads i read.
Aft the dip i transfered her to a new clean qt tank


She is eating well no symptoms of brook so slime coats, breathing is fine. She is always hungry and active so thats good.

Theres two spots on her cheek that *may* be ich so ill observe for a few more days, but im doing the ttm so im already treating it i guess.