Pretty sure I've managed to get Ich or Velvet into my DT...

[HotRocks]

Just noticed them yesterday. Aside from flashing he isn’t really exhibiting other symptoms and my last addition to this tank was at least 9 days ago...

Yeah, I suspect velvet.

Regardless I am going to start treating tonight

Very wise! It's necessary either way.
5min FW dip will provide temporary relief. 90 min bath in acriflavine (Ruby Reef Rally) if you have on hand. Then work on getting your copper level up to at least 1.5ppm in the next 48hrs.

Small doses every few hrs or whatever your schedule allows.

 

[Elgringodiablo]

Yeah, I will keep the wrasses in a separate QT and raise it slower for them

 

[Elgringodiablo]

I am tempted to just pull my snails and urchin and dozen or so coral frags and just dose the DT with copper and use copper removal media to get it out, but probably too risky, some of these fish are going to be a nightmare to get out without tearing down my rock work...

 

[Elgringodiablo]

I did not design this tank to take all the fish out... 100lbs or TLF Stax rock with a ton of dimension and caves + a ton of e-Marco cement holding half of it together... Spent 3 hours successfully getting 2 of the 11 fish out. Caught my Lineatus and Velvet Multicolor wrasses... On the plus side, the price tag on those two add up to about the sum of the other 9... neither seemed too stoked on the FW Dip (mostly) and Acriflavin, but will likely survive the ordeal.

The plan was-
QT 1: Lineatus, Velvet Multicolor, Flame Wrasse & Lyretail Anthias (x2)
QT 2: Desjardini Tang, Pearlyscale Wrasse (sturdier and more likely to beat the others up in close quarters), PJ Cardinal (x4)

The tang and the cardinals are hiding out. The two other wrasses and anthias are too quick and likely wise to my traps. I will take another run at it later, the PJs tend to be easy to light blind when they come out at night.

At this point I can:
1) pull my corals and inverts (not much since this version of the tank has only been up for 2.5 months) and treat the whole DT with Copper and deal with removing it in 30 days with Polyfilter, Carbon and Detox...
2) dismantle my rockwork, which wouldn't be too different from a restart, as I'd never be able to puzzle it all back together they way I set it up, probably 40-50 individual pieces...
3) keep trying to catch these buggers for the rest of the weekend and hope I get them before the parasites do

Really no great options... Also super paranoid about treating my wrasses with Cu.

 

[Elgringodiablo]

Also, almost 100% sure it’s velvet

 

[Humblefish]

@Elgringodiablo Have you tried a fish trap, like this simple DIY one below?

 

[Elgringodiablo]

Spent another 3 hours trying to catch fish... no luck whatsoever. Just pulled the snails (most of whom were dead from dino), urchin and the dozen or so starter frags... just going to hit the display with copper tomorrow morning. Tank was barely restarted, so I am not losing much... Hopefully I don't become a cautionary tale.

 

[Elgringodiablo]

@Elgringodiablo Have you tried a fish trap, like this simple DIY one below?

Considered making some, but honestly, I have about 4 clear acrylic ones, I've removed all the livestock from this tank twice now. First time took me 3 days. Second time, I spent about 3 weeks, but wasn't working against the clock. Half my fish are hiding any time I come near the tank.

I am just going to nuke the display, hope my fish survive and spend the next 2-3 months getting the copper out. Between dino and velvet, I kind of want to take a match to my tank at this point.

 

[Elgringodiablo]

That Hanna Copper checker can’t arrive soon enough. API appears to be low, but I don’t want to risk overdose over inability to recognize slight color variance.

Grabbed a couple black Mollys for my frag tank to make sure I’m not bringing any diseases to my system via coral or inverts...

 

[Elgringodiablo]

So, got the Hanna Copper Checker. Removed the corals and inverts from my display tank and brought the Cu up to 1.6 over about 3 days. The 9 fish I couldn't catch are all doing great. Cu levels are holding steady, so I don't think it's being sopped up by my rock (guess we will see when it comes time to remove it). Regardless, I am loving the resolution and accuracy of that test, no clue how people managed without it.

The two wrasses I was able to catch are in a 10 gallon QT, spent about 5 days bringing the Cu up to 1.6. Things were looking good in there until today. My velvet multicolored wrasse is totally fine and eating like a champ, my supermale lineatus (easily most valuable fish in my collection) has decided to stop eating and keeps swimming near the surface when I pulled the piece of pipe he was hiding in out to make sure he wasn't stuck. He was freaking out trying to jump out when I started getting the Cu levels over about 1.3. Ate for a couple days north of 1.5, but don't feeling it today.

Removed about 25% of the water and put non-Cu treated water in, likely taking my Cu levels down to 1.2-1.3. Fish was healthy as a horse before I pulled him out of my DT, but may have also been typhoid mary to the infection, as he was the last addition before I noticed the breakout. I will try feeding again tomorrow and hopefully he starts eating again, in which case I will slowly raise my Cu levels back up to 1.6.

If he is copper sensitive, what the heck am I supposed to do? I know CP isn't a viable option with a fairy wrasse (killed a few trying before I knew better). TTM won't do anything about velvet. After this whole ordeal, I don't want to take any chances, but I also don't want to kill a $300+ fish (or any fish for that matter). @Humblefish @melypr1985 ??

 

[Humblefish]

@Elgringodiablo So as a disclaimer, I have yet to run a Lineatus through Chloroquine. However, since starting my business I have run almost a dozen different Cirrhilabrus genus wrasse thru Chloroquine without incident (need to start a thread documenting everything).

So, my gut feeling is this: Cirrhilabrus and Halichoeres are probably fine in CP. Not enough data points (yet) to make a determination with other genera of wrasses.

 

[Elgringodiablo]

@Elgringodiablo So as a disclaimer, I have yet to run a Lineatus through Chloroquine. However, since starting my business I have run almost a dozen different Cirrhilabrus genus wrasse thru Chloroquine without incident (need to start a thread documenting everything).

So, my gut feeling is this: Cirrhilabrus and Halichoeres are probably fine in CP. Not enough data points (yet) to make a determination with other genera of wrasses.

I have successfully run a Halichoeres margaritaceus (Pearly Wrasse) through CP about 2.5 years ago.

Also pretty sure I’ve killed a few wrasses attempting prophylactic CP, but they may have been flashers and sixline. It’s been a while since I’ve used CP after losing a few fish to it and lack of a reliable pure source.

If the Lineatus just won’t tolerate chelated copper, I may end up being the guinea pig.

 

[Crashjack]

FWIW, I recently ran a female Lineatus through CP with no problems.

 

[Elgringodiablo]

FWIW, I recently ran a female Lineatus through CP with no problems.

Good to know. Come to think of it, I don’t recall killing any fairy wrasses with CP, just flashers and hippo tangs... took the copper down to 1.4, will remove it and try CP if he’s still not eating tomorrow.

 

[Elgringodiablo]

So, my Lineatus, who basically stopped eating after taking my Cu up to 1.7 has been hiding and barely eating since switching to CP.

Initially he didn’t even look or act sick, but I wanted to treat all my fish to be totally sure.

Cu is down to 0.2 since I haven’t been able to completely remove when switching meds. He’s been in CP for about 9 days now.

Wondering if I should pull the meds and hope he recovers or push for another 5 days.

 

[Humblefish]

He’s been in CP for about 9 days now.

Transfer him into another QT (clean/sterile) at least 10 feet away. No meds, just observe.

 

[Elgringodiablo]

Transfer him into another QT (clean/sterile) at least 10 feet away. No meds, just observe.

All 3 of my QTs are full and medicated (counting the one he is in).

Thinking my best bet is to pull him and some of his water out into a bucket. Drain the tank he's in, wipe it down, refill, heat circulate, match the salinity and put him back in.

Or option two, do a big water change and throw in some carbon and polyfilter.

 

[shoelaceike]

In the 3 years ive been in this hobby, I've lost 2 fish to ich. A pb and a achilles. Ive kept a ton of tangs and havent had any issues with them. As long as they stay healty they can fight off ich. Based on what I read, ive found a lot more people lose fish to qt/medication than without

 

[Elgringodiablo]

In the 3 years ive been in this hobby, I've lost 2 fish to ich. A pb and a achilles. Ive kept a ton of tangs and havent had any issues with them. As long as they stay healty they can fight off ich. Based on what I read, ive found a lot more people lose fish to qt/medication than without

Famous last words... One of my LFS' told me early on 'all fish have ick', you just have to keep them healthy. Every time I go to that shop I ask about nice fish that used to be in one of the many displays and get to hear some story about a mystery full system wipeout that can't be explained...

90% sure I was dealing with Velvet, which is way worse... I've lost dozens of fish to velvet in display tanks and in quarantine. I know I have lost fish to medicating too, but when you spend thousands on livestock, you are better off losing one fish than half your tank.

 

[shoelaceike]

Its interesting, because if velvet was that much of an issue, the stores would constantly have it in thier non medicated tanks. I have never seen this happen and not only that but they have had the same fish in them for years.....ive Ive likely purchased over 100 fish and never ran into velvet. At least not to the extent that it killed fish.