preview of 800 g tank in 3 rooms

[FishTruck]

Hey BZOFIQ... can you elaborate? What part won't work as designed? I know the siphon will end at the gate valve, I'm not going to get the full 10 feet of siphon - but, I will get about four feet.

On the bottom end, I am feeding two rollermats - and wanting to do this evenly - so I have to collect all the drainage redistribute and can't submerge the siphon line - they will be spilling onto the rollermat media.

 

[The Aquatic Arsenal]

This an amazing build. Now I want to build a house around a massive system lol. One day...

 

[pdxmonkeyboy]

The issues is going to be that it is not going to be a full siphon in the drain line.

The other pipes are going to act line vent pipes in your house (which prevent all the water from being sucked out of the p-trap btw).

So the vaccum created by the water falling will suck air in and it is going to be quite noisy and prevent a true siphon from forming.

You could combine your two siphon tubes into one and the overflow and emergency drains into one to reduce floor penetrations if that was what you were going for.

Also.. make sure you put the gate valve downstairs, not next to the tank. It will make reestablishing a siphon go much quicker.

 

[FishTruck]

OKAY, I get it, and I knew that - but I was hoping it would still be quiet enough. Maybe not.

The way I had laid it out, I will have a solid column of flowing water with no air in one or two siphon tubes (silent). BUT - the fluid that collects in the drain manifold will be a mix of air and water, which could slow the potential flow to the basement and make noise. Especially if it traps air pockets (giant bubbles).

I was hoping there would be enough volume in the 3 inch drain manifold and enough suction down two four foot siphons, that the additional overflow water would be a trickle and the tumbling water down the manifold wouldn't be too loud and would not be able to form gurgle bubbles.

I put the gate valves on the 1st floor so I could adjust it without running up and down the stairs. I'll contemplate running the siphons all the way down to the basement.

I read that siphons should NOT be T'd together from two overflow boxes... but I think if I have a balance pipe, it would be o.k.

See this below.

What to Avoid – Teeing both siphon drains together
Some people wish to have only one drain line going to their sump, so they attempt to join the two Herbie siphons together. This is usually done below the tank under the bulkheads by using a “T” fitting.
This setup should be avoided.
You see, it is nearly impossible to keep the water level in two separate overflows balanced if they’re connected by the drain line. A siphon will always function as one unit, so the two intakes will affect each other no matter what. No configuration of valves or having equal lengths of pipe will change this.
The reason is that there are slight variations in flow from each siphon, like algae on the strainer or overflow teeth. These variations will always be present and changing the flow in the pipes over hours or days. One line will always affect the other if they connect in any way.
Gaining control over the water level in each overflow is only possible with individual siphons, or by connecting the two overflows with a Balance Pipe. A siphon must have it’s own independent valve and pipe extending down into the sump water to a chamber with a constant water level.

The issues is going to be that it is not going to be a full siphon in the drain line.

The other pipes are going to act line vent pipes in your house (which prevent all the water from being sucked out of the p-trap btw).

So the vaccum created by the water falling will suck air in and it is going to be quite noisy and prevent a true siphon from forming.

You could combine your two siphon tubes into one and the overflow and emergency drains into one to reduce floor penetrations if that was what you were going for.

Also.. make sure you put the gate valve downstairs, not next to the tank. It will make reestablishing a siphon go much quicker.

 

[pdxmonkeyboy]

I think if you have the balance pipe between them you will be fine. The gate valve at the top however will prevent you from "filling" that 3" drain line with water to an extent that it will form a full suction.

Just T the 1.5" pipes together for the drain. As said before, that column of water is going to suck water out of the tank at an alarming rate. your gate valve is going to be like 10% open... tops.

A 1' pipe will pull 3900 GPH with 11 feet of head. 1.5 will be almost 6k.

 

[gotmesalty77]

You had me at “house I am building for my reef tank”

+1

 

[FishTruck]

The issues is going to be that it is not going to be a full siphon in the drain line.

The other pipes are going to act line vent pipes in your house (which prevent all the water from being sucked out of the p-trap btw).

So the vaccum created by the water falling will suck air in and it is going to be quite noisy and prevent a true siphon from forming.

You could combine your two siphon tubes into one and the overflow and emergency drains into one to reduce floor penetrations if that was what you were going for.

Also.. make sure you put the gate valve downstairs, not next to the tank. It will make reestablishing a siphon go much quicker.

I think if you have the balance pipe between them you will be fine. The gate valve at the top however will prevent you from "filling" that 3" drain line with water to an extent that it will form a full suction.

Just T the 1.5" pipes together for the drain. As said before, that column of water is going to suck water out of the tank at an alarming rate. your gate valve is going to be like 10% open... tops.

A 1' pipe will pull 3900 GPH with 11 feet of head. 1.5 will be almost 6k.

What if I did something like this?? Note the air ejectors at the bottom - spilling into the two rollermats. These are all 1.5 inch pipes. The rollermats are actually seavisions cloth cads units, designed to handle 3000 gph each. There will be noise in the basement by the sump - I know I can't get away from that. I just need it quiet upstairs.

 

[pdxmonkeyboy]

I am not sure what the purpose of the air detectors are?

You could just run one drain pipe.. then split into two,one for each roller mat

 

[DawnfromPa]

I want to see the finished product. We are builders (not reef builders)so there is nothing like the smell of lumber to me.... what a project. I was just telling salty above about the 2 largest personal aquariums...1 in Israel and 1 in N. America.. You definitely, have to be in the top 100? How many gallons did you say this is?

 

[DawnfromPa]

Watch this video for some tips on a design... this guy is a brainiac but I am sure you could find his schematics.

 

[FishTruck]

I am not sure what the purpose of the air detectors are?

You could just run one drain pipe.. then split into two,one for each roller mat

Usually, the siphons are finished submerged in the sump. I’m not sure if that’s just to cut noise, or if its to block air entry at the bottom of the siphon. The curved pipe at the bottom was an idea I had to clear bubbles from the bottom of the siphon so air can’t enter from either side. I don't really know if that is necessary.

 

[FishTruck]

I want to see the finished product. We are builders (not reef builders)so there is nothing like the smell of lumber to me.... what a project. I was just telling salty above about the 2 largest personal aquariums...1 in Israel and 1 in N. America.. You definitely, have to be in the top 100? How many gallons did you say this is?

My display will be 875 gallons, with two 100 gallon grow out tanks and about another 100 gallons in the sump - so technically I am in the 1000 gallon club. Top 100 in the City perhaps!

 

[Deep dive coral]

Wow @FishTruck I thought I had a good build going. You sir blow me out the water. I am definitely subscribing

 

[DawnfromPa]

My display will be 875 gallons, with two 100 gallon grow out tanks and about another 100 gallons in the sump - so technically I am in the 1000 gallon club. Top 100 in the City perhaps!

That’s dreamy. I want to climb inside with the fish...Will you ever get in there? That would be awesome.

 

[BZOFIQ]

Usually, the siphons are finished submerged in the sump. I’m not sure if that’s just to cut noise, or if its to block air entry at the bottom of the siphon. The curved pipe at the bottom was an idea I had to clear bubbles from the bottom of the siphon so air can’t enter from either side. I don't really know if that is necessary.

You can't have air in full siphon pipe or the siphone will not start.

 

[BZOFIQ]

I think you'll have to have the 2 siphon pipes drain into say 20G long sump from where it will overflow a baffle and drain into your roller mat thingies.

 

[Ashish Patel]

I am planning a 400 gallon display tank in my new house and going to run everything to the basement with 3 separate drains (bean animal overflow). 1 full siphon, 2nd line that trickles, and emergency drain. I current have a ghost overflow and to be able to send 1500 gallons through my sump without noise, bubbles, salt creeps, etc is amazing. Since tank is upstairs and will be BB I want to add a T on the emergency drain so I can siphon the tank easily and just add a filter sock to emergency drain. Also I plan on having 2 drains feeding a fiberglass tank that will help catch detritus and be easily removed and clean.My current sump is large and I notice detritus is always collected in the refugium area, This detritus can easily settle in the separate fiberglass tank before draining to the skimmer section - Same way those horrible internal overflows collect detritus

 

[FishTruck]

I think you'll have to have the 2 siphon pipes drain into say 20G long sump from where it will overflow a baffle and drain into your roller mat thingies.

I could build a PVC box for this purpose...

 

[FishTruck]

Here is what my trim carpenter and builder came up with for the cabinet doors. This meets the requirements of my wife and our decorator. It's not the gigantic actuator controlled 12 foot machine shed door that I wanted... but each door gives four feet of access, and they go around all four sides. They are light weight, no mechanicals, and they look like wall panels. They swing up to 90 degrees, then, push back about a foot to canteliver in place. No handles or knobs needed. Neat! I have to work around cross braces anyway - so I think this will be pretty good access and better than what I have on my current tank. It also saved me a bundle over what I was going to pay for actuators and spring shocks for the ridiculously heavy contraption that I had drafted.

 

[Aussiemarine]

Wow looking amazing can’t wait to see it full