Prophylactic treatment

Steve Maxwell · Jan 3, 2016

Hello...
I have a Hoeven's wrasse, an exquisite firefish, and a flame anthias that I've just purchased and are in my quarantine tank. I've never quarantined fish before, nor treated any fish for any disease. I figured it is time to stop playing Russian Roulette and start quarantining fish as I'm finishing up my new tank.

I've purchased PraziPro & Ick-shield to treat prophylactically...is there any particular order I should treat? When I remove the carbon package from my HOB filter, would putting in some filter floss suffice for filtration? Any other tips/tricks?

Thanks!

Humblefish · Jan 3, 2016

First off, I think you have made the right decision choosing to QT. However, before you begin dosing meds it's important to be sure your QT is setup properly to handle ammonia from the fish bio-load and also provides enough gas exchange (as all meds will deplete oxygen from the water.)

Can you describe your QT in more detail? Listing all equipment used? How are you going about utilizing biological filtration in QT?

If you haven't done so already, reading this might prove useful: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/how-to-quarantine.189815/

Especially the part about "Ammonia control".

Steve Maxwell · Jan 4, 2016

Humblefish said:
First off, I think you have made the right decision choosing to QT. However, before you begin dosing meds it's important to be sure your QT is setup properly to handle ammonia from the fish bio-load and also provides enough gas exchange (as all meds will deplete oxygen from the water.)

Can you describe your QT in more detail? Listing all equipment used? How are you going about utilizing biological filtration in QT?

If you haven't done so already, reading this might prove useful: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/how-to-quarantine.189815/

Especially the part about "Ammonia control".

Sure...I have a 29G breeder that I am using as a QT tank. I have some Marineland LEDs that I got with my 75G package that I'm using for the lights on the QT. I have a Hydor Nano 425 providing some circulation (it is pointing up towards the waterline at an angle). An Aqueon pro 250 heater. An Aqueon quiet flow 50 power filter (250 GPH) for filtration. I also have a Seachem ammonia alert badge coming in the mail. When I started the tank I seeded it with some filter floss that I had in my 29G BioCube for about 2 weeks. I thought about putting in some live rock that I've been saving to seed the 75G, but wasn't sure if that was a good idea or not.

Humblefish · Jan 4, 2016

Steve Maxwell said:
I thought about putting in some live rock that I've been saving to seed the 75G, but wasn't sure if that was a good idea or not.

You can, but the LR will need to be removed before dosing copper (or CP) and considered "contaminated" if symptoms of disease ever present themselves. This just means you need to sterilize the rock (let it become dry rock) before reusing it. The ammonia alert badge will let you know when (or if) you need to do WCs to control ammonia.

Prazipro (more info below) is a good idea to deworm. However, Ick Shield I don't trust as it is Chloroquine phosphate sourced from China and their QC standards can be dubious at best. CP is an excellent drug for treating external protozoa (ich, velvet, brook, uronema), but it needs to be 99% pure in order to be effective. More info: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/chloroquine-phosphate.192309/

Prazipro (praziquantel): Treats flukes, black ich, and some internal parasites (worms).

How To Treat - In either a quarantine or display tank, dose Prazipro at the rate of 1 teaspoon per 20 gallons of water. DO NOT OVERDOSE (especially with wrasses), try not to mix with other medications (for various reasons), and provide additional gas exchange while treating with Prazi. Wait 5-7 days, do a 20-25% water change and then repeat dosage. The reason for the second dose is to eradicate the “next generation” of worms before they can lay eggs of their own. Because while Prazi does kill worms, it doesn’t eliminate any eggs they might leave behind.

Prazipro is generally considered reef safe, although it may kill any tube worms/feathers dusters you have. It may also eradicate bristle worms. If you have mass quantities of these, the resulting die-off can lead to an ammonia spike. After treatment is done, activated carbon may be used to remove any residuals (if you need to use a different medication next). If using a protein skimmer post-treatment, be advised that it will “over skim” for at least a couple of weeks.

Pros - Reef safe, effective dewormer that is relatively gentle on most fish.

Cons/Side Effects - Mild appetite suppression, moderate oxygen depletion, wrasses are sensitive to overdosing.

Steve Maxwell · Jan 4, 2016

Thank! Now to see if my vet will give me a script for CP...I kinda doubt it as he is picky as heck, but it won't hurt to try! Any recommendations if I can't get a script for CP?

Humblefish · Jan 4, 2016

Steve Maxwell said:
Thank! Now to see if my vet will give me a script for CP...I kinda doubt it as he is picky as heck, but it won't hurt to try! Any recommendations if I can't get a script for CP?

Unfortunately, it has to come from an American, Canadian or European pharmacy to be considered reliable. I don't know of any other reliable source. Sometimes showing your vet the articles below will help convince them of CP's legitimacy for treating sick fish:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2013/2/fish

http://www.saltcorner.com/Articles/Showarticle.php?articleID=41

Steve Maxwell · Jan 4, 2016

Thanks...I'll try. I don't think he will prescribe without actually seeing a fish with ich. Maybe I can print out a picture from the internet and pass it off as my fish

Humblefish · Jan 4, 2016

I got one you can use (notice the pectoral fin):

3 days later in CP @ 40mg/gal:
http://s1276.photobucket.com/user/Humblefish123/media/Ich 4/Day 00/DSC_0240_zpshedrxj1z.jpg.html

Steve Maxwell · Jan 7, 2016

No...can't find a vet that will prescribe CP. Guess I'll have to try the ick shield or just not treat at all

Humblefish · Jan 7, 2016

That sucks.

fernalfer · May 24, 2016

I just treated my Lemon Peel Tang with prazipro. Quarantining all fish before going into DT but very nervous first time dosing meds. I have a 20 gallon QT. I did a 25% water change then i dosed 1 Teaspoon for the 20 gallons of water. So i now wait 5-7 days and then i do a water change and repeat the dosage 1 more time correct? I just want to make sure this is done right. My Tang looks and seems very healthy and was skeptical of even treating for anything. But after reading stories of issues after in DT is why i'm doing so. Next is Cupramine after the prazipro which worries me even more.

melypr1985 · May 24, 2016

fernalfer said:
I just treated my Lemon Peel Tang with prazipro. Quarantining all fish before going into DT but very nervous first time dosing meds. I have a 20 gallon QT. I did a 25% water change then i dosed 1 Teaspoon for the 20 gallons of water. So i now wait 5-7 days and then i do a water change and repeat the dosage 1 more time correct? I just want to make sure this is done right. My Tang looks and seems very healthy and was skeptical of even treating for anything. But after reading stories of issues after in DT is why i'm doing so. Next is Cupramine after the prazipro which worries me even more.

As long as you followed the dosing directions on the bottle then your good there. You have the rest right as well! Good luck with it

Humblefish · May 24, 2016

fernalfer said:
So i now wait 5-7 days and then i do a water change and repeat the dosage 1 more time correct?

Correct

fernalfer · May 25, 2016

Humblefish said:
Correct

Thank You. Hey Humblefish, if my Tang is still showing no signs of Ick after these 2 treatments of prazipro which will put him in Quarantine for 3 weeks now, should i still go ahead and treat him with cupramine anyways? He eats like a pig and swims around the entire tank and not shy at all. I have not seen any spots on him or itching or anything for that matter to show the possibility of Ick present. Now i know it could be in the gills this is why i ask. Just don't want to make things worse by treating him if he is not a carrier.

Humblefish · May 25, 2016

fernalfer said:
Thank You. Hey Humblefish, if my Tang is still showing no signs of Ick after these 2 treatments of prazipro which will put him in Quarantine for 3 weeks now, should i still go ahead and treat him with cupramine anyways? He eats like a pig and swims around the entire tank and not shy at all. I have not seen any spots on him or itching or anything for that matter to show the possibility of Ick present. Now i know it could be in the gills this is why i ask. Just don't want to make things worse by treating him if he is not a carrier.

That's a tough call. Lemonpeel Tang is an Acanthurus, so spots should show on the skin if he has ich. However, as you know ich can harbor inside the gills out of sight if the infestation is light. I personally would treat with copper. Better safe than sorry.

FYI; TTM is a non-chemical treatment for ich: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/tank-transfer-method.192655/

fernalfer · May 25, 2016

Yeah I looked at TTM. But their is no way the wife is letting me buy another tank setup. I know some say you can get 2 ten gallon aquariums or even use buckets but tangs need room and the 20 gallon he is in now is probably to small so Cupramine is what it will have to be. Hopefully he isn't to sensitive to it and gets through it ok.