Protocol for using antibiotics to treat infected anemones

[Eagle_Steve]

Day 7 of treatment of this gig

Looks awesome.

 

[Eagle_Steve]

In my all anemone tank, I dosed the display tank with like 3 Cipro tablets each night. Also my lfs anemone tank is dosed with Cipro daily. I know it's a broad spectrum antibiotics, but it doesn't seem to impact the beneficial bacteria enough to notice any issues when I dosed my display tank. I have not lost a single anemone from that lfs, honestly think all lfs should do that!

There is BJD thread where @AquaBiomics tested the water pre and post treatment. Post treatment tests were completed many time thorough out the course of treating a DT. It showed that almost all of the good bac was unaffected.

I have treated fully mixed DTs with cipro at almost nem hospital tank levels without an issue. Not saying one should, but the tanks are still doing fine and nothing was affected while doing it.

 

[sprungson]

There is BJD thread where @AquaBiomics tested the water pre and post treatment. Post treatment tests were completed many time thorough out the course of treating a DT. It showed that almost all of the good bac was unaffected.

I have treated fully mixed DTs with cipro at almost nem hospital tank levels without an issue. Not saying one should, but the tanks are still doing fine and nothing was affected while doing it.

Mixed as in with corals, sps, lps? If so great. I would do that next time. I actually prefer to just dose the display tank so it treats all the anemones when adding a new one

 

[Eagle_Steve]

Mixed as in with corals, sps, lps? If so great. I would do that next time. I actually prefer to just dose the display tank so it treats all the anemones when adding a new one

yes. @Lost in the Sauce and @F i s h y have also done this. Not to the strength I have, as I had over 40 nems in a tank and one got into a PH, moved the guard off and about nuked the tank. All nems were sick after that, so the 150 or so gallons of water was treated to 250mg per 10 gallons for 10 days. Chewy got lots of my money that week lol.

Give me a minute and I will find the thread on treating BJD for ya. The whole tank treatment is less per gallon of water, but others have done it with no issue if they catch a sick nem early and using the lower dose.

 

[Eagle_Steve]

Mixed as in with corals, sps, lps? If so great. I would do that next time. I actually prefer to just dose the display tank so it treats all the anemones when adding a new one

Here is the article.

Experimenting with in-tank antibiotic treatments for Brown Jelly Disease

Brown Jelly Disease (BJD) is an issue many reefers have run into. Like most coral diseases, the pathogen causing BJD has not been conclusively determined. Here I will share some observations and test results supporting the idea that its caused by a bacterial pathogen, and so may be treatable...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[sprungson]

A week after treatment! https://youtube.com/shorts/xi-AFSbMXlw?feature=share

 

[shred5]

A week after treatment! https://youtube.com/shorts/xi-AFSbMXlw?feature=share

Looks good.

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

Look good.

What was your doseage and tank volume?

 

[Mattiejay6]

A week after treatment! https://youtube.com/shorts/xi-AFSbMXlw?feature=share

what was your dosage?

 

[sprungson]

what was your dosage?

I followed the protocol. 250mg in 10 gal

 

[olonmv]

There is BJD thread where @AquaBiomics tested the water pre and post treatment. Post treatment tests were completed many time thorough out the course of treating a DT. It showed that almost all of the good bac was unaffected.

I have treated fully mixed DTs with cipro at almost nem hospital tank levels without an issue. Not saying one should, but the tanks are still doing fine and nothing was affected while doing it.

Quick question, I’m currently doing an in tank treatment, mainly because the rock the nem is on is one of my main rocks in my aqua scape.

Im dosing .6ml daily (on day 3 now) of a 50ml solution I made with a crushed 500mg pill of cipro and RODI into the tank. I run a 13.5 evo. I read that a 6 day treatment will do the trick. Question is…..am I adding enough meds for the volume in my tank? I dose at night when lights go out, no skimmer uv or anything fancy. All inhabitants seem ok with the meds.

added a porcelain crab into the tank and it annoyed my nem to the point of almost death. He’s in my sons tank by his lonesome. Doesn’t help that the nem is a diva. Refuses to host anything.

 

[2Sunny]

EDIT: I want to be clear this post in no way is meant to be disrespectful, but merely propose an alternative point of view. My sincerest apologies if it "steps on some toes".


I am tremendously disappointed that this thread was made a "sticky" giving it a sense of overall acceptance. I will add that none of the LFS in my area employ antibiotics to "treat" anemones EVER and sell them on a regular basis including all varieties, and the LFS in question are run by some of the hobbies best known LFS owners including the owners of House of Fins and Greenwich Aquaria, both owners with more than 30 years of experience in the hobby. Now having said that I quote a post of mine from 2020. I post this just so people reading this thread get an alternative point of view. One tiny aside . . . deflation is not always an indication of trouble. The paper below shows that sometimes anemones deflate and expel excess zooxanthellae when taken from a high light environment and placed in a low light environment. I point this out just to say that without clear scientific research much of what is said here is "gut" instinct of fellow reefers and not fact. Keep that in mind.

This is from my original post:

I have had an anemone in my reef since 2001. The first one I kept for over a decade. It split numerous times and was featured in a magazine article, and finally I sold it for a large sum in the fall of 2014. Sadly it died in the care of the new owner within months. Happily I gave a clone to Jason Edward of Greenwich Aquaria in 2005, and he is holding a clone of that anemone for me at his shop today. After that first anemone, I bought a second that grew so large I gave it to the Norwalk Aquarium this past winter where it is on display today. I then purchased a third anemone alas it arrived with a torn pedicle and died within a month. I then bought my fourth and fifth anemone a Bubble Tip and my fourth Ritteri, both of which are in my tank today, doing quite well. I have never treated any of the anemones with ciprofloxacin. All of my Ritteri anemones deflated and presented a gaping mouth numerous times for the first month I had them. Recently I found a scientific paper that may explain why the Ritteri Anemones behave in this manner.

Depth Influence on the Zooxanthellae Abundance and Primary Productivity of Branching and Massive Corals on Bama Beach Baluran National Park

This paper provided data showing that the lower light environment corals live in the higher the concentration of zooxanthellae. This would explain why anemones expel zooxanthellae IF they are collected from anywhere other than the highest reaches of a reef. Also logically an anemone can only inflate and deflate and turn out its mouth as a means of expelling anything which would imply, to me, that deflation and mouth opening is a normal behavior.

I have scoured the internet for actual papers on bacterial infections of anemones in captivity and or treatment of captive anemones with antibiotics. All I found were numerous papers showing that ciprofloxacin has varying toxicity towards photosynthetic algae.

Growth Response and Toxic Effects of Three Antibiotics on Selenastrum Capricornutum Evaluated by Photosynthetic Rate and Chlorophyll Biosynthesis

In a recent thread one new anemone owner contacted a local vet and asked about using ciprofloxacin and here is the post:



In addition there was another paper quoted in that thread that provides evidence that direct feeding of anemones improves mass and may be necessary for anemones from warmer waters that have a higher metabolism

Effects of feeding regime on growth rate in the Mediterranean Sea anemone

Another paper offered evidence that having clownfish is important as they provide "food" for the anemone through their excretions

Nutrient transfer in a marine mutualism: patterns of ammonia excretion by anemoneWsh and uptake by giant sea anemones

Finally I would note that I maintain my reef at 78.0 to 78.5 degrees fahrenheit all year round.

So now getting to my point. Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but I think there are several commonly held beliefs on this forum:

1) Many anemones arrive unhealthy and with a bacterial infection.
2) The health or, lack there of, of an anemone is indicated by deflation and mouth extrusion.
3) The use of ciprofloxacin is the best means for "saving" an anemone that is deflating and has a gaping mouth.
4) Anemones should not be or do not need to be directly fed especially when newly arrived.
5) Many anemones prefer warmer water above 80 degrees fahrenheit.

Now my purpose in starting this thread is not to start an argument or say my methods are better than any other reefer out there. My purpose here is to uncover any scientific research to support the use of ciprofloxacin because it is my hypothesis that ciprofloxacin use is harming more anemones than helping, but I am very open to evidence to the contrary. What I am NOT looking for is a discussion that includes anecdotes from other reefs. I am keenly aware many people have used ciprofloxacin and have healthy anemones.

A link to the original thread:

Cipro discussion

 

[brandon429]

Let’s make a new addendum title for the thread: how to make an aquarium produce resistant bacterial strains that can’t even be killed even with a direct uranium soak…reef tankers get unfettered access to powerful antibiotics and apply them in doses unintended until bacteria that can be seen with the naked eye from across the room results.


I have no doubt the procedure works for anems

how medically responsible is the approach / any epidemiologists can comment?

surely nobody who’s a physician at a hospital is ok with 175 random web reefers customizing and applying cipro doses as guesstimates

 

[OrionN]

Indiscriminate, unnecessary use of antibiotic is bad for the enviroment and should not be done.

 

[Chrisanthellae]

I have a RFA with damaged tissue on one side. I'm thinking of treating with Cipro but I'm hesitant because the RFA still looks fine otherwise (normal extension, mouth closed). I've never treated a nem before so I wanted to see what more experienced people would do.

You can see the damaged side is elevated and has some tissue sloughing off. It has been in my tank for about a week and was purchased at my LFS. I have 11 other RFA that are all doing well. Tank is 4 years old.

Should I start Cipro ASAP or wait and see?

 

[Chrisanthellae]

So I started treating the next day since tissue loss was getting worse. Been treating daily and have seen no effect from the Cipro. Really weird how layers of tissue keep sloughing off this nem...

 

[Chrisanthellae]

Last night I decided to do a peroxide dip and an iodine dip as a last ditch effort to stop the tissue loss. I did ~ 1 part peroxide to 5 parts tank water for 6 minutes. Then I did a few drops of Lugol's in a small dish of tank water also for 6 minutes. The nem looked awful afterwards but opened back up by the next morning. So far there has been no more tissue loss, but the nem still won't attach it's foot to anything... I think now I'll just leave it be and hope it pulls through

 

[MartinM]

Last night I decided to do a peroxide dip and an iodine dip as a last ditch effort to stop the tissue loss. I did ~ 1 part peroxide to 5 parts tank water for 6 minutes. Then I did a few drops of Lugol's in a small dish of tank water also for 6 minutes. The nem looked awful afterwards but opened back up by the next morning. So far there has been no more tissue loss, but the nem still won't attach it's foot to anything... I think now I'll just leave it be and hope it pulls through

Updates?

 

[OrionN]

Peroxide are such strong oxidants. At strong enough concentration to kill bacterial, it will also kill the exposed anemone tissue. I think this will cause more damage to the anemone.
In-order to use something as treatment, it must be more toxic to the pathogen then the host. Otherwise you will just kill the host animal.

 

[MartinM]

I’m going to make the assumption that Levofloxacin is interchangeable with Ciprofloxacin for our purposes at the same dosage, or am I off base?