Protocol for using antibiotics to treat infected anemones

[Jeeperz]

You talk about being harmless if proper precautions are taken, like"wearing gloves" but give nothing about the correct gloves or practices or warnings. I.E. promotion of using antibiotics without any warnings yet YOU talk yourself up as a "so called" professional.

I, fortunately, know how to don PPE, a lot of others do not. YOU made it sound as though it's simple without explanation.

 

[Letterkenny]

What do you look for to determine if antibiotics are needed? I ordered a nem that arrives tomorrow and want to be sure I am proactive. Luckily the seller is very good and ships with Cipro just in case the buyer needs it.

 

[flampton]

You talk about being harmless if proper precautions are taken, like"wearing gloves" but give nothing about the correct gloves or practices or warnings. I.E. promotion of using antibiotics without any warnings yet YOU talk yourself up as a "so called" professional.

I, fortunately, know how to don PPE, a lot of others do not. YOU made it sound as though it's simple without explanation.

So you thought my advice to take precautions was dangerous. However you didn't immediately say hey let's show people how to wear gloves. Instead you attacked me... You didn't say hey could you please discuss ppe? You didn't attack the the op first who didn't mention any personal safety precautions. Your first reply to this thread wasnt hey this could be dangerous, should we discuss ppe? I think you need to figure out what went wrong today for you because you're trying to take it out on the wrong person.

Done... Sorry Orion...

 

[OrionN]

Question on this. If the anemone goes back to its original tank, what prevents the bacteria from reinfecting once back in the tank.

I also noted these instructions are different from the other thread that has 100% water changes done every 12 hours for the first 36 hours I believe.

A successful well run reef tank should have conditions not too different for the wild (don't we all hope this for our tank). IMO, anemone get infected through stress and damages from shipment. Deflation is a mechanism for the anemone to dump infected organism out of their body. In the wild, these get carried away and they inflated with good clean sea water. IN the transfer bag, they deflated and reinflated with the same old bacterial laden water, thus get them sick.
In our treatment tank, if the antibiotic is effective, it should kill or inhibit the bacterial from growing, this would be effective in treating the anemone.

This protocol was as I originally wrote it. People modified along the way. I always recommended to 100% water change daily, plus 100% when ever the discharge from the anemone cause the water to be cloudy, and to remove any solid discharge.

 

[OrionN]

What do you look for to determine if antibiotics are needed? I ordered a nem that arrives tomorrow and want to be sure I am proactive. Luckily the seller is very good and ships with Cipro just in case the buyer needs it.

Normally anemones may deflated due to stress within 24 hrs but after 24 hrs, providing the condition he is in is optimal he should not continue to deflates inflates cycle. Some species shipped a lot better than other.
What are you getting?
Perhaps you can post pictures and we can provide you with our opinions.

 

[Letterkenny]

Normally anemones may deflated due to stress within 24 hrs but after 24 hrs, providing the condition he is in is optimal he should not continue to deflates inflates cycle. Some species shipped a lot better than other.
What are you getting?
Perhaps you can post pictures and we can provide you with our opinions.

Getting a CSB. Will see when it comes in this morning.

 

[Letterkenny]

Here it is.

 

[Reefing_addiction]

Here it is.

How much did that Colorado sunburst cost you?

mare you qt him?
Can you send pics of him out his bag and maybe in a bucket

 

[Letterkenny]

How much did that Colorado sunburst cost you?

mare you qt him?
Can you send pics of him out his bag and maybe in a bucket

No QT. He is the only thing in that tank. He is starting to perk up being in the tank and the lights ramping up.

 

[Fishboy9227]

Hey @OrionN, I'm looking at getting a Heteractis crispa. Would it be advisable to treat with cipro upon arrival to prevent any infections?

Thanks!

 

[brandon429]

thousands of anemone owners are not building superstrain bacteria as the core treatment approach for the slightest phase of being withdrawn




that anemone above should not be treated with antibiotics randomly. Count me against this procedure now that I see its recommended even without a general need.



the anemones just open back up in most tanks I’ve seen, if that times with a five day dose of a ten day antibiotic Im not sold the pill did it

 

[brandon429]

Flampton how wide ranging a med is cipro am curious

if it’s buzzsawing the associated biota with the anemone how do we know that’s good vs bad overall

does cipro cover an expected wide swath of the surface and internal biome or is it known to be restricted in affect, only hitting suspected pathogens? If it’s very targeting then maybe not so bad but general searches on antibiotics use without matching sure makes it look unideal
if it turns out my concerns were off base I’ll go erase it all

 

[Abhishek]

@OrionN - excellant article and thank you for posting .

I know you have mentioned Cipro but can Enrofloxacin be used instead of Cipro ?

 

[flampton]

Flampton how wide ranging a med is cipro am curious

if it’s buzzsawing the associated biota with the anemone how do we know that’s good vs bad overall

does cipro cover an expected wide swath of the surface and internal biome or is it known to be restricted in affect, only hitting suspected pathogens? If it’s very targeting then maybe not so bad but general searches on antibiotics use without matching sure makes it look unideal
if it turns out my concerns were off base I’ll go erase it all

Ciprofloxacin is broad spectrum and has activity against most bacteria, good and bad. That's why I called it a hammer. As for the anenomes natural microbiome, well that is a concern, however the pros and cons need to be weighed. Dying animal it is definitely worth it, while prophylactic treatment is questionable at best.

 

[Reefing_addiction]

thousands of anemone owners are not building superstrain bacteria as the core treatment approach for the slightest phase of being withdrawn




that anemone above should not be treated with antibiotics randomly. Count me against this procedure now that I see its recommended even without a general need.



the anemones just open back up in most tanks I’ve seen, if that times with a five day dose of a ten day antibiotic Im not sold the pill did it

OrionN never states that all anemones should be treated just one he judges need to be treated. He scored them on some level. Most articles I’ve read about it states they give them time in some sort of qt weather it is in it own container within the tank or a actual qt.
I picked up my nem at a LFS store and didn’t treat. But somewhere in the last month it became stressed and started deflating for long periods of time and also had filament coming out of places in it oral disk (other than its mouth)

I think the entire idea of treatment is a last ditch effort depending on the status of you nem.

I too wouldnot treat the CSB nem. Stick him in and watch.

 

[OrionN]

No QT. He is the only thing in that tank. He is starting to perk up being in the tank and the lights ramping up.

Nice. Good luck with him. He does not seem to need treatment at least right now. BTA normally does not need treatment

Hey @OrionN, I'm looking at getting a Heteractis crispa. Would it be advisable to treat with cipro upon arrival to prevent any infections?

Thanks!

I don't recommend prophylactic treatment. Crispa are not as hardy as BTA, but often does not require treatment either

thousands of anemone owners are not building superstrain bacteria as the core treatment approach for the slightest phase of being withdrawn

resistant developed when the same strain of bacterial repeatedly exposed to low dose antibiotic, thus selected for the subpopulation that is resistant to the antibiotic. One strain treated in Texas will not have an impact on the train in Colorado

that anemone above should not be treated with antibiotics randomly. Count me against this procedure now that I see its recommended even without a general need.

Agree, count me against this too

the anemones just open back up in most tanks I’ve seen, if that times with a five day dose of a ten day antibiotic Im not sold the pill did it

Sick anemone are sick anemone. Some species can pull through and other cannot most of the time. I am glad that I am not trying to sell you anything. If your anemone need treatment and you dont use it, it is too bad for that anemone and your pocket. That is all.

@OrionN - excellant article and thank you for posting .

I know you have mentioned Cipro but can Enrofloxacin be used instead of Cipro ?

Thanks.
Enrofloxacin is a Floroquinone that was withdraw from human use due to toxic effects. I am not that familiar with it, but I think it should be fine for anemone. Dose wise, I am not sure. I would use dosage for a 60 lbs dog (best guess) for about 10 gal of water.

 

[OrionN]

Regarding inappropriate use of antibiotic, Back in the 80's and 90's chicken grower routinely put Cipro in chicken feed to feed chicken antibiotic continuously. This way they keep Salmonella from killing 100,000 of thousands chicken in these huge chicken house in short order. The antibiotic would stop about 1 week before the chicken were send to the slaughter house (people can get allergic reaction to residual antibiotic in the chicken meat). In the US this practice was banned by the FDA in the 90's sometime. If you are interested please search for this. I may have my date incorrect. However, I believe that this is a widespread practice still going on in other parts of the world, especially Asia when I last check writing this article in 2013.

 

[brandon429]

I do not purchase organic chicken, consider me gut loaded w the pro lol

 

[LRT]

I'm pretty sold the pill actually did it for my shrooms. Pretty well documented and progress is ongoing. Although nothing scientific and things where changed.
Here is the link.

Cipro treatment- Calling all Mushroom Guru's

Have a few questions and wanted some feedback on a cpl things before I began my Cipro treatment on a batch of Jawbreakers. I've read some good things on Cipro treatments for anemones as well as @Reefer1978 success with getting shrooms to re attach using Cipro treatment with success! Theres...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[LRT]

Ciprofloxacin is broad spectrum and has activity against most bacteria, good and bad. That's why I called it a hammer. As for the anenomes natural microbiome, well that is a concern, however the pros and cons need to be weighed. Dying animal it is definitely worth it, while prophylactic treatment is questionable at best.

Sorry I did not catch this.
What kind of antibiotic would be best for dieing,melting anenome/shroom? In assuming necrosis since flesh is melting and floating away. Cipro did help my shrooms in question but if there is a better alternative to these specific symptoms I'd really like to know.

Thank you in advance sir