Public Service announcement: Water change/Nitrate, etc

[MnFish1]

A calculator that can be used to see how much water is actually being removed/added with water changes.
(note the key here is the fact that there is a calculator available to do this - not a criticism of vibrant)

Background:

So. I recenctly tried vibrant - which worked great - and also inexexpectedly rose my nitrates from their usual 5 to >120. Coral started to brown a bit - stopped growing - a couple had problems (as the algae melted away). Ive read many threads where people have high nitrate - and they seemingly battle it for weeks and weeks - so I looked for a way to calculate how much water needed to be changed (assuming no new production of nitrate/day) - that would help me get it down more quickly

I found this one online (At Hamza's reef) - It basically is a calculator that lets you enter the amount of water in your tank, the amount of water you are planning to change , and the interval of the changes - in my case 140 gallons of water, 40 gallon changes, every day for 5 days.

Effective Water Change Calculator

Aquarium calculator; Estimate the effective water change amount of several combined smaller water changes.

www.hamzasreef.com

Here is the calculator:

SO this means that after the 5 days of changes - My nitrate should have dropped by 80% or my nitrate should measure about 20 ppm. I measured today after following this protocol and indeed it had dropped nicely to around 20 ppm

 

[Larry L]

Thanks for the calculator link.

I recently tried vibrant - which worked great - and also inexexpectedly rose my nitrates from their usual 5 to >120.

I guess it's something people should expect when using Vibrant - you're killing off algae which is going to release a bunch of sequestered nitrates and phosphates.

 

[jlts21]

I just tested my nitrates on Monday and they have not increased at all. Maybe I should do a test when I get home and make sure. Im dosing 12ml (120g tank) once a week (3rd dose was yesterday)

*EDIT** in fact had a very slight drop than what it normally is

 

[MnFish1]

Thanks for the calculator link.



I guess it's something people should expect when using Vibrant - you're killing off algae which is going to release a bunch of sequestered nitrates and phosphates.

Well - and this is not just for vibrant - but if you're wanting to lower any thing (PO4, alk, salinity, or if you just ant to calculate how much water is actually being changed by your automatic water changer etc - its useful IMO

 

[foxt]

Thanks for posting!

 

[Dan_P]

A calculator that can be used to see how much water is actually being removed/added with water changes.

Background:

So. I recenctly tried vibrant - which worked great - and also inexexpectedly rose my nitrates from their usual 5 to >120. Coral started to brown a bit - stopped growing - a couple had problems (as the algae melted away). Ive read many threads where people have high nitrate - and they seemingly battle it for weeks and weeks - so I looked for a way to calculate how much water needed to be changed (assuming no new production of nitrate/day) - that would help me get it down more quickly

I found this one online (At Hamza's reef) - It basically is a calculator that lets you enter the amount of water in your tank, the amount of water you are planning to change , and the interval of the changes - in my case 140 gallons of water, 40 gallon changes, every day for 5 days.

Effective Water Change Calculator

Aquarium calculator; Estimate the effective water change amount of several combined smaller water changes.

www.hamzasreef.com

Here is the calculator:

SO this means that after the 5 days of changes - My nitrate should have dropped by 80% or my nitrate should measure about 20 ppm. I measured today after following this protocol and indeed it had dropped nicely to around 20 ppm

Interesting observation about nitrates. @taricha might comment on this as it compares to his lab experiments with Vibrant.

 

[dduby]

I just tested my nitrates on Monday and they have not increased at all. Maybe I should do a test when I get home and make sure. Im dosing 12ml (120g tank) once a week (3rd dose was yesterday)

*EDIT** in fact had a very slight drop than what it normally is

I am also on my third week of vibrant and my nitrates haven't gone anywhere. Is creeping nitrates a side effect?

 

[MnFish1]

I am also on my third week of vibrant and my nitrates haven't gone anywhere. Is creeping nitrates a side effect?

Well. in all honesty - I used (according to their website) the 2 doses per week because I had a stubborn problem that I was trying to get rid of - I did not have a lot of detritus, etc (that I knew of) - but its possible. In any case - the tank looks great - but the nitrates rose. Again - the main purpose was to talk about the calculator..

 

[taricha]

thanks @MnFish1. I often use their Alk calculator to convert between dKh meq and ppm. Thanks for pointing out another useful tool.
what were you killing with vibrant?
Vibrant can kill selectively at some dosing levels, some tougher algae will grow as others die. Or it could kill a lot of algae and halt the growth of any algae that normally uptakes NO3. So totally possible for different users to report mixed NO3 effects with it.

 

[MnFish1]

thanks @MnFish1. I often use their Alk calculator to convert between dKh meq and ppm. Thanks for pointing out another useful tool.
what were you killing with vibrant?
Vibrant can kill selectively at some dosing levels, some tougher algae will grow as others die. Or it could kill a lot of algae and halt the growth of any algae that normally uptakes NO3. So totally possible for different users to report mixed NO3 effects with it.

Right. I had some Chaeto - that had overgrown - its funny it was a little piece - for 10 years it stayed the same - then it grew..... I decided to try vibrant....

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Well - and this is not just for vibrant - but if you're wanting to lower any thing (PO4, alk, salinity, or if you just ant to calculate how much water is actually being changed by your automatic water changer etc - its useful IMO

Not entirely true. Phosphate will drop way slower than calculated due to the huge reservoir on rock and sand that is in equilibrium with the water.

 

[MnFish1]

Not entirely true. Phosphate will drop way slower than calculated due to the huge reservoir on rock and sand that is in equilibrium with the water.

Can you explain? For those of us without pHds? Though I think I know what you mean

 

[SeaDweller]

Let's see how long until the naysayers come along and tell you that "it's been proven that WC don't reduce NO3" because its bound in rocks or whatever else they say. I'll always stick to WC to replenish and back then (still is) a great way to dilute nutrients or what have you in your water. Even at the beginning of the year I systematically could test and see my NO3 drop from 300 to 15-20 in a matter of a few 50% (120 gallon) WC.

 

[Shooter6]

i assume the op 140gal is the complete system?

 

[MnFish1]

i assume the op 140gal is the complete system?

Yes - sump and tank

 

[MnFish1]

Let's see how long until the naysayers come along and tell you that "it's been proven that WC don't reduce NO3" because its bound in rocks or whatever else they say. I'll always stick to WC to replenish and back then (still is) a great way to dilute nutrients or what have you in your water. Even at the beginning of the year I systematically could test and see my NO3 drop from 300 to 15-20 in a matter of a few 50% (120 gallon) WC.

Well- the problem is the nitrate removal needs to be greater than nitrate production... I think when most people talk about doing a'water change' they are doing 5 gallons a week in a 50gallon tank - at that point,theproductionof nitrate probably is matching the amount being removed. I'm hoping that there reason for my nitrate rise was a higher than normal production - due to decomposition/breakdown due to vibrant - which - since most of that is now gone - im hoping it will stay 'low'. Will update the thread - today it was down to between 10 and 15ppm.

 

[Mastiffsrule]

Thank as always. Without calculators I will still be on hands and toes counting up to 20 ;Woot

Would 1 large water change be more effective than diluting it daily?

My only worry would be a large change in No3 quickly that may negatively affect coral.

If done daily the amount removed should diminish with each change making each change less and less effective. Each change dilutes the water more. Then add in a small amount of nitrate from whatever source I would think it would be like going 2;steps back and then 1 forward.

If that makes sense. If not I will fall back on my usual excuse, I was tired, bad headache and seeing pink elephants everywhere.

 

[MnFish1]

Thank as always. Without calculators I will still be on hands and toes counting up to 20 ;Woot

Would 1 large water change be more effective than diluting it daily?

My only worry would be a large change in No3 quickly that may negatively affect coral.

If done daily the amount removed should diminish with each change making each change less and less effective. Each change dilutes the water more. Then add in a small amount of nitrate from whatever source I would think it would be like going 2;steps back and then 1 forward.

If that makes sense. If not I will fall back on my usual excuse, I was tired, bad headache and seeing pink elephants everywhere.

The answer is - you can use the calculator to determine it. But -it seems to me- forgetting'risks' of change - if you for example change 100% of water - your nitrate will drop to whatever the nitrate was in the replacement water