Purple tang sick for two months

[BuzzIIIG]

The purple tang has been sick for two months. I got her for almost a year, and she's been eating well and healthy, but she stopped eating Mysis shrimp and Formula Two Flakes(she used to love them so much) a month ago. I observed for 3 days and she wasn't getting any better, only ate seaweed, so I set up a quarantine tank and put her in. I got a blue tang and a powder blue tang in the main tank. They both were fine. The purple tang looked great and no parasite was observed.

Treatments:
1. Freshwater dip and observed for 3 days. Not eating at all just hiding.
2. I tried to use API General Cure for a week. She started to come out and ate a bit of seaweed. Water changed and kept dosing General Cure for one more week and then stopped. not getting better.
3. Tired Seachem Metroplex and Kanaplex for a week. Same situation. Only ate some seaweed and Formula Two
4. Stopped any treatments and observed for a week. Not improved. I thought I was gonna lost her soon.
5. My wife said the purple tang might be too lonely staying in the QT and asked me to put another fish to company her. I didn't even want to try because I didn't believe it, but I was so desperate, so I did it. I put a crown fish in the QT and the purple tang swam out of her cave and started eating on the second day. She got better and better for 2 weeks and then he got ich. I could tell the white dots on her skin and the tail. I knew she was still weak so I tried to see if her immune system could cure it when she ate more. Not happening. More white dots in the following 2 days and eating less and less.
6. Seachem Cupramine Copper. Followed the instruction, 1ml for 10 gallons, and dosed another 1ml after 48 hours. Even though the ich was gone after the first 24 hours. I followed the instruction and keep the copper level for 2 weeks. Now she is back to not eating mode during the 2 weeks of treatment and hiding a lot. I did a 100% water change yesterday and she swam out and ate a few brine shrimps today. I saw the color was fading on her skin. Not sure why. Does anyone happen to know what's wrong with her, possible treatments, or any thoughts? Thanks in advance.

 

[Beau_B]

So, I’m not an expert.

My take from what has happened is the tang had ich the entire time and stress was likely the continued problem (another fish, relocations, etc).

Once it had the copper treatment that has helped the ich problem but copper can be a appetite suppressant. Try a garlic supplement to entice the fish to eat, though it should already be better if you removed the copper.

The coloration change is likely HLLE forming due to poor diet. It can be reversed and heal completely if the fish takes to eating a good diet again.

I believe you’re on a good track now, but consider your DT and other fish are exposed to ich and will remain so unless you treat everything and do a fallow period, so putting the purple back in at this stage could restart the problem.

Whether you want to do ich eradication vs management is an entire topic that has been discussed repeatedly on the forums. However it would seem based on what has happened to the purple that your particular group of fish are unlikely to cohabitate with ich as is.

 

[threebuoys]

Do you have any pictures taken under white light?

Have you tracked water parameters over this period and can you provide?

Do you have fish other than the three tangs in the DT, are any of them new to your system, and have any of the others displayed any abnormal symptoms?

Calling #fishmedic

 

[polyppal]

It’s looking pretty HLLE-y

HLLE (Head & Lateral Line Erosion)

Head & Lateral Line Erosion "HLLE": Symptoms - HLLE literally looks as though the skin is rotting or peeling off the fish. Affected areas usually include the face and lateral line, and may be white in color. Treatment options - This is more of a condition than an actual disease. Since no one...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Jay Hemdal]

The purple tang has been sick for two months. I got her for almost a year, and she's been eating well and healthy, but she stopped eating Mysis shrimp and Formula Two Flakes(she used to love them so much) a month ago. I observed for 3 days and she wasn't getting any better, only ate seaweed, so I set up a quarantine tank and put her in. I got a blue tang and a powder blue tang in the main tank. They both were fine. The purple tang looked great and no parasite was observed.

Treatments:
1. Freshwater dip and observed for 3 days. Not eating at all just hiding.
2. I tried to use API General Cure for a week. She started to come out and ate a bit of seaweed. Water changed and kept dosing General Cure for one more week and then stopped. not getting better.
3. Tired Seachem Metroplex and Kanaplex for a week. Same situation. Only ate some seaweed and Formula Two
4. Stopped any treatments and observed for a week. Not improved. I thought I was gonna lost her soon.
5. My wife said the purple tang might be too lonely staying in the QT and asked me to put another fish to company her. I didn't even want to try because I didn't believe it, but I was so desperate, so I did it. I put a crown fish in the QT and the purple tang swam out of her cave and started eating on the second day. She got better and better for 2 weeks and then he got ich. I could tell the white dots on her skin and the tail. I knew she was still weak so I tried to see if her immune system could cure it when she ate more. Not happening. More white dots in the following 2 days and eating less and less.
6. Seachem Cupramine Copper. Followed the instruction, 1ml for 10 gallons, and dosed another 1ml after 48 hours. Even though the ich was gone after the first 24 hours. I followed the instruction and keep the copper level for 2 weeks. Now she is back to not eating mode during the 2 weeks of treatment and hiding a lot. I did a 100% water change yesterday and she swam out and ate a few brine shrimps today. I saw the color was fading on her skin. Not sure why. Does anyone happen to know what's wrong with her, possible treatments, or any thoughts? Thanks in advance.

Can you clarify for me - the copper treatment, how were you testing the copper, and did you have to add much during the two weeks?

Jay

 

[BuzzIIIG]

So, I’m not an expert.

My take from what has happened is the tang had ich the entire time and stress was likely the continued problem (another fish, relocations, etc).

Once it had the copper treatment that has helped the ich problem but copper can be a appetite suppressant. Try a garlic supplement to entice the fish to eat, though it should already be better if you removed the copper.

The coloration change is likely HLLE forming due to poor diet. It can be reversed and heal completely if the fish takes to eating a good diet again.

I believe you’re on a good track now, but consider your DT and other fish are exposed to ich and will remain so unless you treat everything and do a fallow period, so putting the purple back in at this stage could restart the problem.

Whether you want to do ich eradication vs management is an entire topic that has been discussed repeatedly on the forums. However it would seem based on what has happened to the purple that your particular group of fish are unlikely to cohabitate with ich as is.

Thank you for reading through the long story and providing thorough feedback. Agreed. I saw a white dot on the powder blue once and it disappeared after a day or two. I think the ich is there in the DT, but the other fishes are healthy, so it hasn't come to an outbreak yet. After the purple gets better, I will set up another QT and treat them all together.

I did use Seachem Garlic Guard once or twice a week, but it doesn't work well on the purple. I used to have Selcon, but really don't like it clouds the water. Do you have any recommendations for the supplement? I guess I will have to stick with Selcon if there are no other good options.

 

[vetteguy53081]

The purple tang has been sick for two months. I got her for almost a year, and she's been eating well and healthy, but she stopped eating Mysis shrimp and Formula Two Flakes(she used to love them so much) a month ago. I observed for 3 days and she wasn't getting any better, only ate seaweed, so I set up a quarantine tank and put her in. I got a blue tang and a powder blue tang in the main tank. They both were fine. The purple tang looked great and no parasite was observed.

Treatments:
1. Freshwater dip and observed for 3 days. Not eating at all just hiding.
2. I tried to use API General Cure for a week. She started to come out and ate a bit of seaweed. Water changed and kept dosing General Cure for one more week and then stopped. not getting better.
3. Tired Seachem Metroplex and Kanaplex for a week. Same situation. Only ate some seaweed and Formula Two
4. Stopped any treatments and observed for a week. Not improved. I thought I was gonna lost her soon.
5. My wife said the purple tang might be too lonely staying in the QT and asked me to put another fish to company her. I didn't even want to try because I didn't believe it, but I was so desperate, so I did it. I put a crown fish in the QT and the purple tang swam out of her cave and started eating on the second day. She got better and better for 2 weeks and then he got ich. I could tell the white dots on her skin and the tail. I knew she was still weak so I tried to see if her immune system could cure it when she ate more. Not happening. More white dots in the following 2 days and eating less and less.
6. Seachem Cupramine Copper. Followed the instruction, 1ml for 10 gallons, and dosed another 1ml after 48 hours. Even though the ich was gone after the first 24 hours. I followed the instruction and keep the copper level for 2 weeks. Now she is back to not eating mode during the 2 weeks of treatment and hiding a lot. I did a 100% water change yesterday and she swam out and ate a few brine shrimps today. I saw the color was fading on her skin. Not sure why. Does anyone happen to know what's wrong with her, possible treatments, or any thoughts? Thanks in advance.

Kept copper level at what level?
What test kits were you using to monitor copper?
Prior to going to copper, did you remove all other meds with carbon or other resin then flush the tank out?

Fish is awefully thin. Assuming its eating, what are you feeding or just nori and brine shrimp?
What nori are you feeding ?
What is ammonia level using what test kit ?

 

[BuzzIIIG]

Do you have any pictures taken under white light?

Have you tracked water parameters over this period and can you provide?

Do you have fish other than the three tangs in the DT, are any of them new to your system, and have any of the others displayed any abnormal symptoms?

Calling #fishmedic

Do you have any pictures taken under white light?
Sorry, I don't have white light for the QT. I am using a grow light for the QT which only has either pinkish or blueish colors. I tried to turn it off and use the light in the room, but it was too dark and she hides once I turned it off.

Have you tracked water parameters over this period and can you provide?
I only used API 5 in 1 test strip for testing.

NO2: 0
NO3: very close to 0
salinity 35 ppt
temperature 78°F

I used the Seachem copper test kit. Kept it in 0.5 ppm. The Cupramine instruction says 20 drops(1ml) for 10 gallons in the first 48 hours. Another 20 drops after 48 hours. Total 2ml in the 14 days. I used the measuring cup to measure the quantity. 20 drops usually more than 1ml. It depends on how hard I squeezed the bottle. I dosed exactly 1ml each time.

Do you have fish other than the three tangs in the DT, are any of them new to your system, and have any of the others displayed any abnormal symptoms?
I got two clownfishs. They are all at least 1 year old to my DT. No new fish was introduced. The powder blue got a white dot once but it was gone after 24 hours. I assume there is ich in the DT as well.

 

[BuzzIIIG]

It’s looking pretty HLLE-y

HLLE (Head & Lateral Line Erosion)

Head & Lateral Line Erosion "HLLE": Symptoms - HLLE literally looks as though the skin is rotting or peeling off the fish. Affected areas usually include the face and lateral line, and may be white in color. Treatment options - This is more of a condition than an actual disease. Since no one...

www.reef2reef.com

Thanks for the link. 99% matches the HLLE description.

 

[BuzzIIIG]

Can you clarify for me - the copper treatment, how were you testing the copper, and did you have to add much during the two weeks?

Jay

Thanks Jay. I used the Seachem copper test kit. Kept it in 0.5 ppm. The Cupramine instruction says 20 drops(1ml) for 10 gallons in the first 48 hours. Another 20 drops after 48 hours. Total 2ml in the 14 days. I used the measuring cup to measure the quantity. 20 drops usually more than 1ml. It depends on how hard I squeezed the bottle. I dosed exactly 1ml each time.

 

[BuzzIIIG]

Kept copper level at what level?
What test kits were you using to monitor copper?
Prior to going to copper, did you remove all other meds with carbon or other resin then flush the tank out?

Fish is awefully thin. Assuming its eating, what are you feeding or just nori and brine shrimp?
What nori are you feeding ?
What is ammonia level using what test kit ?

I used the Seachem copper test kit. Kept it in 0.5 ppm. The Cupramine instruction says 20 drops(1ml) for 10 gallons in the first 48 hours. Another 20 drops after 48 hours. Total 2ml in the 14 days. I used the measuring cup to measure the quantity. 20 drops usually more than 1ml. It depends on how hard I squeezed the bottle. I dosed exactly 1ml each time.

I did a 100% water change and a few 50% water changes before dosing copper.

Fish is awefully thin. Assuming its eating, what are you feeding or just nori and brine shrimp?
What nori are you feeding ?

Agreed. I skipped a heart bit when she came out from the hiding place and I could clearly see her after 3 weeks in QT. She used to eat like a pig, fat and healthy. Now she is like only got skeleton left it broke my heart on the first sight

1. Mysis shrimp and Mixed nutrient (brine shrimp with nori and others stuffs) for herbivore fish frozen food from Petco. One day Mysis and the other day Mixed nutrient(soak in Galic Guard 2-3 times a week. Doesn't work well for me)
2. Ocean Nutrition Formula Two Flakes (must feed after frozen food)
3. Omega One Green Nori(3 times a week. Sometimes every day for a week when purple only takes nori)
4. New Life Spectrum Marine Fish Tropical Food Pellets when purple did eat at all. She ate a few pellets but not much.

I did not test ammonia since NO2 was undetectable and there is algae on the bottom of the tank. In the last five years, I haven't seen any detectable ammonia when there was algae in the tank. Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I used the Seachem copper test kit. Kept it in 0.5 ppm. The Cupramine instruction says 20 drops(1ml) for 10 gallons in the first 48 hours. Another 20 drops after 48 hours. Total 2ml in the 14 days. I used the measuring cup to measure the quantity. 20 drops usually more than 1ml. It depends on how hard I squeezed the bottle. I dosed exactly 1ml each time.

I did a 100% water change and a few 50% water changes before dosing copper.

Fish is awefully thin. Assuming its eating, what are you feeding or just nori and brine shrimp?
What nori are you feeding ?

Agreed. I skipped a heart bit when she came out from the hiding place and I could clearly see her after 3 weeks in QT. She used to eat like a pig, fat and healthy. Now she is like only got skeleton left it broke my heart on the first sight

1. Mysis shrimp and Mixed nutrient (brine shrimp with nori and others stuffs) for herbivore fish frozen food from Petco. One day Mysis and the other day Mixed nutrient(soak in Galic Guard 2-3 times a week. Doesn't work well for me)
2. Ocean Nutrition Formula Two Flakes (must feed after frozen food)
3. Omega One Green Nori(3 times a week. Sometimes every day for a week when purple only takes nori)
4. New Life Spectrum Marine Fish Tropical Food Pellets when purple did eat at all. She ate a few pellets but not much.

I did not test ammonia since NO2 was undetectable and there is algae on the bottom of the tank. In the last five years, I haven't seen any detectable ammonia when there was algae in the tank. Please correct me if I am wrong.

There is im sure some level of copper. Have an LFS that does not use API kits test for you to confirm.
As For diet, typical needs are :
-Spirulina brine shrimp
- LRS Herbivore diet
- mysis shrimp
- small plankton
- Nori seaweed basted with garlic extract
- Hikari Marine cuisine
- Formula 2 flake and frozen
- Hikari veggie marine

Add selcon vitamins to the foods 2-3X per week and on alternating days, garlic extract for stamina and immunity health