Q for everyone are you FOR or AGAINST QT

For or against QT


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Feet4Fish

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Let me add one more thought. IMO more important than prophylactically medicated fish I believe isolating them is a separate system provides the benefit of conditioning. This is of utmost importance when these new fish are about to join a established community.

in a conditioning/QT tank my goals are always the same:

1. See the “timid” fish transition to the bold fish.
2. Establish an aggressive feeding response before it has to compete for food in the display
3. Allow the fish to strengthen its immune system. All stressed fish are to a degree immuno-compromised (even the ones that made the trip from the LFS).

A trick I learned from divers is that all fish I get spend their first 24 hours in darkness. This has worked wonders on fish that were super stressed (like the ones whose bags have completely deflated or the took an extra day to get to me).

A couple I have down conditioning right now…

 

Feet4Fish

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This is definitely a problem that seems unique to these forums. Quarantine only means to isolate something from the rest of something for a period of time. Diagnosing and treating diseases often go hand in hand with QT, but technically is not a part of QT.

I also suspect a small portion of hesitancy is related to the space, cost, and effort associated with QT but is what is needed for JUST the QT part.

I don't think QT and immunity are mutually exclusive. What are the other variables that need more attention?
You’re right….it is semantics to a point. It seems that recently the term QT is synonymous with medicating.
 

Sean_B

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What are the other variables that need more attention?
my inquiry is per "similar attention"

bacteria, stress, tankmates, nutrition, natural supplements, more natural tank settings(hiding spots to call home), barren QT's, tank maturity,............. I have come across threads pertaining to some of these variables, but have had to search for them.
 

brandon429

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excellent inputs on the matter + setup plus ideal fish sourcing. that's doing about as much as could reasonably be expected to meet the demands of marine fishkeeping in a tank not decades old, its really up to date stuff above.

its copy-able by new tankers, all except the supply chaining some simply have to petco it. that's a step up for them above as well, to build low-scare high comfort adaptation tanks.
 

flourishofmediocrity

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You’re right….it is semantics to a point. It seems that recently the term QT is synonymous with medicating.
That's a conflation that *may* be intentional so the argument that QT is "stressful" for the fish can be made which is fallacious.

Bringing home a new fish and putting it in a tank by itself with a heater, biological filtration, low light, and some kind of habitat is not more stressful that putting it in a DT, an argument could be made that it is less stressful for the fish.
 
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N.Sreefer

N.Sreefer

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I guess I was not completely clear. Sorry - I meant more a long the lines of 'Do you quarantine or Not' - in reading the responses - a lot of people 'agree' with it - but not many 'do' it. If you look at the numbers - it seems like 61 percent of people do QT. Not sure thats true.
Ah sorry I misunderstood that's a very good point I bet many that are for QT probably don't have one running.
 
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N.Sreefer

N.Sreefer

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That's a conflation that *may* be intentional so the argument that QT is "stressful" for the fish can be made which is fallacious.

Bringing home a new fish and putting it in a tank by itself with a heater, biological filtration, low light, and some kind of habitat is not more stressful that putting it in a DT, an argument could be made that it is less stressful for the fish.
A couple of pvc elbows that's what most QT have this is much more stressful compared to rock full of algae void space for hiding and microfauna. I would say its our responsibility to give as natural as possible surroundings to new additions. Animals are less stressed in natural surroundings.
 

HuduVudu

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Bringing home a new fish and putting it in a tank by itself with a heater, biological filtration, low light, and some kind of habitat is not more stressful that putting it in a DT, an argument could be made that it is less stressful for the fish.
With an amonia badge that was just set up 15 minutes before?

This is so beyond not true, I can only assume that you are so concerned about being right that you would put out statements that are intentionally false.
 

HuduVudu

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How can anyone vote against QT? Who can be against ridding parasites and preventing the introduction into your system? It’s all for the fishes health so how could you be against it?
Please read the thread.
 

Lyss

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This whole thing goes in circles and from one similar thread to another. We already covered how a QT tank, if not done well, can be stressful/scary for a lone new fish.

I have to stop following these threads — literally there are like 4 of them now — b/c it’s just so hard to have an honest convo when folks come with stuff like wanting to silence others from speaking about no QT or calling logical, normal statements fallacious. It’s really frustrating.

Anyway, I got a lot out of following and participating in these threads, and learned from a variety of folks with interesting things to say, even if their approach wouldn’t match mine right now.
 
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N.Sreefer

N.Sreefer

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This whole thing goes in circles and from one similar thread to another. We already covered how a QT tank, if not done well, can be stressful/scary for a lone new fish.

I have to stop following these threads — literally there are like 4 of them now — b/c it’s just so hard to have an honest convo when folks come with stuff like wanting to silence others from speaking about no QT or calling logical, normal statements fallacious. It’s really frustrating.

Anyway, I got a lot out of following and participating in these threads, and learned from a variety of folks with interesting things to say, even if their approach wouldn’t match mine right now.
Your so right but the exchange sometimes leads to constructive debate and this thread has had some interesting information exchanged so its not all for naught.
 

ying yang

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My concern would be if say a lfs doses low % copper in their tanks and it suppresses say example of ich,then I go lfs and watch a fish or 2 I like and everything looks good about the fish so I buy it or them and take home and put them in a quarantine tank and treat with copper to eradicate ich but because lfs had low dose of copper the ich parasites started to become immune to copper ( or could be any other diesese / parasite and medication ) then after say 30 days of treating copper then I do big wc and either medicate something else then observe the fish/ fishes for say 2 weeks and all is good with no spots or any sign of ich but then put fish in dt and within say 2 weeks or 2 months the ich starts showing up on my fish as it laid dormant.

As this is my concern ( one of main reasons why don't qt my fish as think if diesese/ parasites can get through anyway in the end ) then why bother.

So could scenario I said above happen ?
Or 100% cannot happen as parasites/ dieseses cannot get immune to medications ?

And fwiw I'm genuinely curious and not saying EVERYBODY DONT QT because I've read this and think this before anyone starts saying I'm advising new reefers not to qt as I'm not ^_^
 

Treefer32

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So, this is kinda like a loaded question. So, I'll do my best to not anger anyone. :) I am against each reefer having to QT. That's QT Equipment, medications, Separate water and systems. Fish will die from improper management of the bio filtration in a QT environment moreso than being put into the well taken care of display.

That said.. I'm also not against QT. Stress induces susceptibility to disease. It's true of most of the animal kingdom. So, by the time a fish arrives at someone's home there is a high chance of transmissible disease. What is one to do?

I would love to see more localized / community QT environments. Isolation tanks rented out / or used when not in use. Pretreated with the proper amounts of coper or other medications. Observation tanks setup with avid caretakers, etc.

I don't know of many, if any communities strong enough in the hobby to do something like this. So, what are the other options... I purchase from reputable online companies that have high ratings around their QT processes and advertise their QT processes.

I pay others to QT for me. TSM Aquatics has given me amazing fish. Out of 9 that I purchased, one was injured in shipping and died the next day after receiving it. The rest are all still alive and that was almost a year ago. No transferring of diseases, no signs of ich, all fish are healthy.

Another one that maybe has less than stellar reviews, but I had amazing luck with them is divers den from Live Aquaria. The fish I got all came amazingly packaged from Biota. They were well packaged, well taken care of, and most of them are still alive two. I can gotten 5 Caribbean blue chromises from them. 1 jumped out (I have covers now) and one was bullied after 4-5 months of living in my 350 gallon display. He was chased and bullied enough he eventually died. The 3 remaining are large for a chromis and doing great over a year and half old now.

I have heard of a couple other companies that QT their fish. New Wave Aquaria in MN also QT'd a copperband butterfly fish for me. Treated with several medications and kept it in observation for 2-3 weeks. I had arrived early from out of town and they wouldn't let me take it home yet (which, in the end I was incredibly glad about). When I was finally able to get it and bring it the 300 miles home. It ate frozen and took to eating it from my hand. YAAY!

That was 2 years ago, and it's still doing great! Great personality, etc.

In the end, I support QT practices. I do not know if I'm in support of localized reefers doing QT. I've tried in the past and lost more fish in QT than I would have lost in the display. Just because of lack of supporting filtration aeration, etc and increased stress.
 

flourishofmediocrity

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How can anyone vote against QT? Who can be against ridding parasites and preventing the introduction into your system? It’s all for the fishes health so how could you be against it?
From I can gather, the main argument is that QT is not needed because the immune system of the fish in the existing system can handle a parasite introduction and there is even a belief that it is better for the fish to live with a parasite. This apparently takes some effort to "bolster" the immune systems of the fish.

The major flaws with this logic are pretty obvious:

1. Even if the immune system of the fish in the existing DT can handle the new parasite or infectious disease, what about the new fish?

2. If this is true, how can it be measured? How would someone know their existing livestock would survive a deadly parasite being introduced to their habitat (is there a test available)?

3. A parasite or contagious disease infection is magnified in a tank as opposed to the ocean and even really healthy fish cannot survive a parasite like marine velvet once it takes hold.
 

Paul B

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From I can gather, the main argument is that QT is not needed because the immune system of the fish in the existing system can handle a parasite introduction and there is even a belief that it is better for the fish to live with a parasite. This apparently takes some effort to "bolster" the immune systems of the fish.

The major flaws with this logic are pretty obvious:

1. Even if the immune system of the fish in the existing DT can handle the new parasite or infectious disease, what about the new fish?

2. If this is true, how can it be measured? How would someone know their existing livestock would survive a deadly parasite being introduced to their habitat (is there a test available)?

3. A parasite or contagious disease infection is magnified in a tank as opposed to the ocean and even really healthy fish cannot survive a parasite like marine velvet once it takes hold.
If any of this were true, my and quite a few other tanks would not exist. More parasites means more immunity and immunity is the epitome of fish keeping. Allowing the fish to only die of old age while never exhibiting any disease. What is wrong with that?

To prove it, just look at any old tank. Old is not 5 or 10 years.
 

Ling_Thing

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From I can gather, the main argument is that QT is not needed because the immune system of the fish in the existing system can handle a parasite introduction and there is even a belief that it is better for the fish to live with a parasite. This apparently takes some effort to "bolster" the immune systems of the fish.

The major flaws with this logic are pretty obvious:

1. Even if the immune system of the fish in the existing DT can handle the new parasite or infectious disease, what about the new fish?

2. If this is true, how can it be measured? How would someone know their existing livestock would survive a deadly parasite being introduced to their habitat (is there a test available)?

3. A parasite or contagious disease infection is magnified in a tank as opposed to the ocean and even really healthy fish cannot survive a parasite like marine velvet once it takes hold.
This is exactly why I QT and treat ALL fish with copper at the correct therapeutic levels regardless and also treat for flukes and other parasites. Why take a risk of not quarantining your fish and introducing parasites in your system when you can treat with copper and guarantee 100% that you will not have any parasites in your system I would love to talk with the person who thinks that parasites give the fish a better immune system in captivity that’s almost laughable… again this is all for the fishes health as well as the fishes health in your existing system I understand people are eager and want to buy fish and just dump them right into the reef tank but this isn’t a beginners hobby and people need patience and to do their own research
 

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