Q for everyone are you FOR or AGAINST QT

[Paul B]

What is your point with this?

No point, just information that you can do anything you want or not do anything with.

I mean, putting fish throuigh QT for 6-8 weeks and then putting them into my DT full of live rock and millions of other organisms is hardly sterile.

A quarantined tank is sterile in the respect to parasites and other "needed" (IMO) pathogens.

 

[ying yang]

No point, just information that you can do anything you want or not do anything with.

And this is how I decide to do anything in my life,get the information on whatever,and whenever from as many aspects as possible then I try my best to make an informed decision on what I will or won't do

 

[HuduVudu]

but if I know that there is a very dangerous bacteria that may kill me, If I can, I will not be for exposing anyone to it.

You have E Coli in your gut and you expose other people to it all of the time. Would you care to explain?

We are talking about trying (not 100%) to eliminate

If not 100%, then what percentage? If you don't kill everything then the pathogen can escape and replicate thereby kiling everything? Isn't this correct?

This will have no influence on how a fish later develops in a full reef tank (especially yours I would suspect)

What if we bought a creature that had run through the supply chain and then took it back to where we collected it and put it back into the ocean. Do you really believe that what happened to the fish will have no influence on the fish? Could you provide your thinking on this.

with a very full and complete biome (but hopefully not lethal).

What would determine the lethality of a biome? Maybe the presence of copper? Maybe pahtogens what would be lethal?

I would say again: it's a matter of maximizing the probability of success with fish for those of us without that 50 year tank special sauce to help us out.

I had a 1 year old tank and I followed protocols that allowed my fish to survive. They had ich and outward parasites, 2 years later they are alive. Because I move a lot I have done this many times, same result.

In this regard I don't agree with Paul. I don't think you need a very mature tank to keep fish alive, but I do agree with Paul in that you need a plan.

 

[flyfisher2]

I’m a little surprised at some of the responses from the seasoned keepers. No quarantine is a gamble. No one has said otherwise. We have no way of knowing what the fish has or doesn’t have until it pops up. If your tank is healthy are you relying on the health of your tank and the healthy food to eradicate the disease?
If you like Russian Roulete and it gives you a rush then don’t quarantine.

 

[HuduVudu]

@flyfisher2 so you QT for your aquariums?

Some quick questions, if you don't mind.

If you do QT what is your current protocol for QT?
How long have you been in the hobby and specifically how long have you been keeping salt water aquariums?
What is the size of your DT?
If you QT what is the size of your QT tank?
How many fish have you moved successfully through QT?
What were your losses (if any) in QT?
Have you had any losses after you QTed?

Thanks in advance for your answers.

 

[Garf]

@flyfisher2 so you QT for your aquariums?

Some quick questions, if you don't mind.

If you do QT what is your current protocol for QT?
How long have you been in the hobby and specifically how long have you been keeping salt water aquariums?
What is the size of your DT?
If you QT what is the size of your QT tank?
How many fish have you moved successfully through QT?
What were your losses (if any) in QT?
Have you had any losses after you QTed?

Thanks in advance for your answers.

Are you making a spreadsheet, lol

 

[amygetsalife]

Of course, I advocate for a full, proper quarantine! For me, it is more about protecting existing inhabitants from new disease. Do I lose fish during quarantine? Yes, but unless I make a mistake, I don't lose fish BECAUSE of quarantine, there is a huge difference.

Most of you know, but we keep our current basic quarantine on the first page of this thread:

Current Quarantine Protocol

2023 Quarantine Procedures Jay Hemdal David Scarborough Protozoans (Cryptocaryon/ich, Amyloodinium/velvet) and Metazoan trematodes/flukes are by far the most common parasites found on newly acquired fish. A carefully managed quarantine process can effectively eliminate these parasites before...

www.reef2reef.com

Jay Hemdal

Newbie here, thanks for posting the link. I've got to figure this out.

 

[HuduVudu]

Are you making a spreadsheet, lol

Nope.

Everyone talks about new people or people that are learning. Sadly many people don't provide any information to actually help those people. I know of at least 2 people and there are probably more that are on this thread that are undecided and trying to get information about this topic. I am trying to elicit more information so that they can make informed decions.

It is to easy to come and throw a grenade and then walk away. It would be better if people would come and give their experience about the topic and let the lurkers decide what they think is right for them.

 

[costaricareef]

No point, just information that you can do anything you want or not do anything with.



A quarantined tank is sterile in the respect to parasites and other "needed" (IMO) pathogens.

ok, got it. It IS interesting research. True to a QT definitely. Time spent in QT should be as little as possible IMO.

 

[costaricareef]

You have E Coli in your gut and you expose other people to it all of the time. Would you care to explain?

If not 100%, then what percentage? If you don't kill everything then the pathogen can escape and replicate thereby kiling everything? Isn't this correct?

What if we bought a creature that had run through the supply chain and then took it back to where we collected it and put it back into the ocean. Do you really believe that what happened to the fish will have no influence on the fish? Could you provide your thinking on this.

What would determine the lethality of a biome? Maybe the presence of copper? Maybe pahtogens what would be lethal?

I had a 1 year old tank and I followed protocols that allowed my fish to survive. They had ich and outward parasites, 2 years later they are alive. Because I move a lot I have done this many times, same result.

In this regard I don't agree with Paul. I don't think you need a very mature tank to keep fish alive, but I do agree with Paul in that you need a plan.

I deliberately will not answer your questions. I don't feel they are in the good spirit of the discussion. Just derailers IMO. Take care.

 

[HuduVudu]

I deliberately will not answer your questions. I don't feel they are in the good spirit of the discussion. Just derailers IMO. Take care.

How would it derail to provide information?

Time spent in QT should be as little as possible IMO.

Why won't you clarify this statement? Don't you think that would be helpful?

Why are you delibrately arguing and fighting? No one here knows what you do for your aquarium, and maybe it could be helpful if you provided details about it. It seems that you just came here to fight for your "team". Truth be told you don't have a build thread so no one can even be assured that you have an aquarium, let alone what protocols that you use.

If you have information then you should provide it. I have provided information and I will again if asked.

 

[bmkid1997]

I only buy captive bred or QT'ed fish. There is a local store that QT's fish for you, you can only buy them once they have gone through the process. I know of another local store that is about to start the same thing.

I had mixed luck with QT myself but won't add anything that hasn't been through it by someone more knowledgeable than myself

Definetly hope this is a trending route for some stores. 2 near me have this process and ive had good success with those shops vs others, its my preferred method after I tried to QT on my own.

 

[KrisReef]

Just some interesting information (Thanks Lasse)

In 1885, Louis Pasteur hypothesized that animals raised in sterile conditions would not be able to survive (Pasteur, 1885). Bernard S. Wostmann and his team proved Pasteur’s hypothesis wrong when they developed methods for breeding animals in germ-free conditions (Wostmann, 1981). However, they discovered that germ-free animals required large quantities of nutrient-rich food, yet continued to have stunted growth and development compared with normal animals. Germ-free animals had smaller hearts, lungs, and livers, lower cardiac output, thinner intestinal walls, reduced gastrointestinal motility, lower serum gamma globulin levels, and atrophied lymph nodes (Wostmann, 1981). Most of these deficiencies can be restored by introducing intestinal microbiota from animals raised under normal conditions. Therefore, while microbial colonization may not be essential for life, it is critical for health (Guarner and Malagelada, 2003; O’Hara and Shanahan, 2006).

@Lasse @Paul B
Pasteur and Wostmann, neither of them have a reef tank and ungulates are a poor model for single tanks since they have multiple stomachs. ( Is one stomach QT and the other immune?)
Therefore-
The observation is only valid for systems that only allow for one point of view, and they were working on sterile cows not minds.

Translation: Great information but it’s Friday. Have a great weekend and keep up the steady flow of useful information. Thanks again for the inoculation.

 

[HuduVudu]

@KrisReef appreciate the solid POV here.

Need a little levity right now, because the stock market needs some innoculations.

 

[Paul B]

@Lasse @Paul B
Pasteur and Wostmann, neither of them have a reef tank

Kris, but we really don't know that. Do we?

I am almost old enough to have met Pasteur. He died about 150 years ago but I bet he had a dynamite tank.

Besides remember, probably most scientists and researchers also don't have a reef tank and those guys who came out with that silly ich life span chart, also didn't have one. I think Burgess and Axlerod kept parakeets.

 

[Garf]

To add a tiny bit, I had a massive, catastrophic, immense, disease out break in a newbie tank, 17 years ago. I have not since had an outbreak in a mature tank. Maybe coincidence?

 

[DannoOMG]

I would have one for sure if I had the space+money. It makes sense and I wouldn't mind doing it.

 

[flyfisher2]

Are you making a spreadsheet, lol

@flyfisher2 so you QT for your aquariums?

Some quick questions, if you don't mind.

If you do QT what is your current protocol for QT?
How long have you been in the hobby and specifically how long have you been keeping salt water aquariums?
What is the size of your DT?
If you QT what is the size of your QT tank?
How many fish have you moved successfully through QT?
What were your losses (if any) in QT?
Have you had any losses after you QTed?

Thanks in advance for your answers.

Gladly:
I presently have three fish in a 40 breeder with Copper Safe at therapeutic level.
I try and follow the instructions provided by Humblefish.
Ive lost too many fish in quarantine

@flyfisher2 so you QT for your aquariums?

Some quick questions, if you don't mind.

If you do QT what is your current protocol for QT?
How long have you been in the hobby and specifically how long have you been keeping salt water aquariums?
What is the size of your DT?
If you QT what is the size of your QT tank?
How many fish have you moved successfully through QT?
What were your losses (if any) in QT?
Have you had any losses after you QTed?

Thanks in advance for your answers.

I’ve gone both ways with the quarantine issue and I’ve opted to try and control my lack of patience and do quarantine as reminded by Jay Hemdel and Others

@flyfisher2 so you QT for your aquariums?

Some quick questions, if you don't mind.

If you do QT what is your current protocol for QT?
How long have you been in the hobby and specifically how long have you been keeping salt water aquariums?
What is the size of your DT?
If you QT what is the size of your QT tank?
How many fish have you moved successfully through QT?
What were your losses (if any) in QT?
Have you had any losses after you QTed?

Thanks in advance for your answers.

I believe quarantine is the best way to protect your existing livestock when you buy new fish.
I believe in hypo salinity and I also believe in the prazi and copper methods.
I have a 40 gallon breeder with copper safe and I have three fish in it for the last two weeks.
Ive lost fish in quarantine but I rather loose them in quarantine and not in my display.
As far as how long I’ve been keeping salt water aquariums would date back to the mid 1980’s.
I’ve been able to keep most of my present fish healthy and they were all quarantined.
I’ve had no loses in my display in almost two years other than a sixline wrasse and an ocellaris clown. Both were jumpers.
I’ve made Stupid mistakes where I introduced fish to up and coming aquariums thinking I’d get away with it by using the new tank as an observation tank.
Im still going through that mess and I regret it every day.
Because I’m not able to treat it with copper as I’d like it to be a reef.
Im not the guy who wins the 85,000 tank.
Im the guy who gets the Neal Diamond CD and has to pay the tax on it if I want to keep it.
I’ve learned that if it can happen I’ll be the guy to tell you about it. Sooo that being the case I will reiterate that NOT quarantine is a gamble and if you’re always the winner then good luck!
If not then set up a 10 or 20 and follow the many instructions given on Reef2Reef as to how to do it correctly.
Did I miss anything?

 

[flyfisher2]

Gladly:
I presently have three fish in a 40 breeder with Copper Safe at therapeutic level.
I try and follow the instructions provided by Humblefish.
Ive lost too many fish in quarantine

I’ve gone both ways with the quarantine issue and I’ve opted to try and control my lack of patience and do quarantine as reminded by Jay Hemdel and Others

I believe quarantine is the best way to protect your existing livestock when you buy new fish.
I believe in hypo salinity and I also believe in the prazi and copper methods.
I have a 40 gallon breeder with copper safe and I have three fish in it for the last two weeks.
Ive lost fish in quarantine but I rather loose them in quarantine and not in my display.
As far as how long I’ve been keeping salt water aquariums would date back to the mid 1980’s.
I’ve been able to keep most of my present fish healthy and they were all quarantined.
I’ve had no loses in my display in almost two years other than a sixline wrasse and an ocellaris clown. Both were jumpers.
I’ve made Stupid mistakes where I introduced fish to up and coming aquariums thinking I’d get away with it by using the new tank as an observation tank.
Im still going through that mess and I regret it every day.
Because I’m not able to treat it with copper as I’d like it to be a reef.
Im not the guy who wins the 85,000 tank.
Im the guy who gets the Neal Diamond CD and has to pay the tax on it if I want to keep it.
I’ve learned that if it can happen I’ll be the guy to tell you about it. Sooo that being the case I will reiterate that NOT quarantine is a gamble and if you’re always the winner then good luck!
If not then set up a 10 or 20 and follow the many instructions given on Reef2Reef as to how to do it correctly.
Did I miss anything?

My fish room

 

[HuduVudu]

I’ve had no loses in my display in almost two years other than a sixline wrasse and an ocellaris clown. Both were jumpers.

I think we have all experienced those deaths.
Sux to have a fish that you devote so much to, end up being carpet surfers.

Im the guy who gets the Neal Diamond CD and has to pay the tax on it if I want to keep it.

Ok, I laughed at this pretty hard. Was just listening to one of my Pandora stations. Gawd I love Holly Holy.

I’ve learned that if it can happen I’ll be the guy to tell you about it. Sooo that being the case I will reiterate that NOT quarantine is a gamble and if you’re always the winner then good luck!

My luck sounds about like yours.

Did I miss anything?

Nope, I just was looking for a bit more depth of response, that could show your experience. It gets frustrating seeing a bunch of one liners and not having any idea what someone might have for experience or why they might be saying what they are saying.

Thank you for responding. I appreciate it.

Feel free to add more. The more information the better. It helps for people to see the myriad of ways that people actually deal with their tanks.