Q for everyone are you FOR or AGAINST QT

[flyfisher2]

I think we have all experienced those deaths.
Sux to have a fish that you devote so much to, end up being carpet surfers.

Ok, I laughed at this pretty hard. Was just listening to one of my Pandora stations. Gawd I love Holly Holy.

My luck sounds about like yours.

Nope, I just was looking for a bit more depth of response, that could show your experience. It gets frustrating seeing a bunch of one liners and not having any idea what someone might have for experience or why they might be saying what they are saying.

Thank you for responding. I appreciate it.

Feel free to add more. The more information the better. It helps for people to see the myriad of ways that people actually deal with their tanks.

Here’s a pic of my 40 Quarantine…
There’s a sailfin which was covered in Velvet and cleaned up on three days. A 6 line wrasse which was in same tank with the Sailfin and a lawnmower blenny and n the tube.
The lawnmower just came in Black Friday so I extend the quarantine for all?
I need to look it up.
Memory doesn’t serve me well. Too much Neil Diamond.

 

[Jubei2006]

Unfortunately I think both camps are correct. Paul B. Hudu Vudu and Atoll are definately correct in that supplying a healthy, vibrant well balanced biome with abundant diversity helps to keep parasite burdens down and maintain a healther ecosystem. That being said, I'd still fight like hell not to put a sick fish in that ecosystem. I have purchased all quarantined fish, stated with dead rock, and quarantined everything due to the fact that I cant afford to replace everything if ich or velvet were to be introduced by a acclimate and pray method. Ive had velvet wipe out a tank, Ive had to deal with ich. I have been having a lot of trouble finding quality healthy fish to even quarantine from most of the local fish stores. So Ive used a medicated quarantine vendor and have recieved healthy, eating immediately, and starting to gain weight specimens. I am however getting ready to purchase a significant amount of rock from KP aquatics or Tampa Bay Saltwater (or probably both), keep it curing, circulating, and lit if needed for macroalgae or corals, and then added after several months once velvet and ich lifespans are met (72 days). This is for increasing biodiversity and hopefully overall resident health.

 

[flyfisher2]

Here’s a pic of my 40 Quarantine…
There’s a sailfin which was covered in Velvet and cleaned up on three days. A 6 line wrasse which was in same tank with the Sailfin and a lawnmower blenny and n the tube.
The lawnmower just came in Black Friday so I extend the quarantine for all?
I need to look it up.
Memory doesn’t serve me well. Too much Neil Diamond.

Same fish November 18th

 

[flyfisher2]

These fish (7total) were purchased from a VERY reputable LFS in my area. I placed them in quarantine…
Three days later 6 were dead or dying.
Look at last pic

 

[Jubei2006]

These fish (7total) were purchased from a VERY reputable LFS in my area. I placed them in quarantine…
Three days later 6 were dead or dying.
Look at last pic

That sucks, she was a pretty Lamarcks. Have had the same problems the last few years. Have bought several fish from LFS that seemed healthy and eating. Diseased and or dead within days. Is one of the reason I stopped going that route. I dont know if it's the stores, or the quality of the fish coming in due to all the bans and restrictions now.

 

[HuduVudu]

Here’s a pic of my 40 Quarantine…
There’s a sailfin which was covered in Velvet and cleaned up on three days. A 6 line wrasse which was in same tank with the Sailfin and a lawnmower blenny and n the tube.
The lawnmower just came in Black Friday so I extend the quarantine for all?
I need to look it up.
Memory doesn’t serve me well. Too much Neil Diamond.

What filtration are you using for this tank?
How do you deal with ammonia and the products of the nitrogen cycle?
I forgot if you said it, but are this fish in process?

 

[HuduVudu]

Same fish November 18th

Nice he did clean up nicely.

I noticed that there is rock in the tank ... is this a pick at the LFS?

 

[HuduVudu]

stated with dead rock,

Were your forced down this path or was there another reason? I know you stated later you are getting KP rock, just wondering why you chose to start this way.

Ive had velvet wipe out a tank, Ive had to deal with ich.

Can you describe your experience with this?
When did it happen?
How many fish did you lose?
How long ago was it?
How far along were you with the hobby when this happened?
What did you do before the wipeout?

I have been having a lot of trouble finding quality healthy fish to even quarantine from most of the local fish stores.

Do you have a lot of LFSs in your area?

This is for increasing biodiversity and hopefully overall resident health.

What peaked your attention about biodiversity that you changed paths?

 

[HuduVudu]

These fish (7total) were purchased from a VERY reputable LFS in my area. I placed them in quarantine…
Three days later 6 were dead or dying.
Look at last pic

Are the pics from the LFS or from your quarantine tank?
If they are from your quarantine what happened to the live rock?

 

[HuduVudu]

@Jubei2006 what country are you in?

 

[bnord]

I’m not understanding why why QT would be undesirable. Even after nearly a year without any disease I have one sitting ready to go as a hospital tank. I know that the pathogen level is very low in my tank and I also know that it’s not absent. Early in my restart in the hobby I had a velvet outbreak and was able to save 75% of the tank With a hospital followed by fallow.
The 25% still hurts.

 

[HuduVudu]

I’m not understanding why why QT would be undesirable.

The more mature your tank becomes the more able it is to handle parasite loads, so the theory goes.

For me the benefits of working with the fish in a more natural environment lowers stress and makes getting the fish to eat much much easier.

Even after nearly a year without any disease I have one sitting ready to go as a hospital tank.

Have you needed to use it?

I know that the pathogen level is very low in my tank and I also know that it’s not absent.

Can you expound on why you are not concerned about a low pathogen level? Aren't you shooting for zero?

The 25% still hurts.

Agreed it sucks when things die, I don't think anyone really likes that pain.

 

[Jubei2006]

@Jubei2006 what country are you in?

US

 

[Jubei2006]

Were your forced down this path or was there another reason? I know you stated later you are getting KP rock, just wondering why you chose to start this way.

Can you describe your experience with this?
When did it happen?
How many fish did you lose?
How long ago was it?
How far along were you with the hobby when this happened?
What did you do before the wipeout?

Do you have a lot of LFSs in your area?

What peaked your attention about biodiversity that you changed paths?

I went with dead rock this time as I have gotten multiple undesirable pest over the years with aiptasia being one Im still dealing with in my nano. In addition, Im not risking ich or velvet if possible, so everything is quarantined to at least out last those two. Ich I got in my first reef tank around 2004 or so, killed a few fish at times, but overall managable and didnt completely nuke the tank. Didnt quarantine, and was young enough and dumb enough it never crossed my mind. If it was healthy and eating in the fish store...it went in the tank. Life moved on, those tanks were taken down, but I kept a 29gallon which I still have now because of a mean butt maroon clown. Had him 13 years and his partner, an 8 year old yellow watchman goby until in 2018 I purchased a seemingly healthy eating blue sided wrasse (I was starting to stock my 500 at that time). Well 2 days later it developed velvet and died, also taking my maroon clown and the watchman goby with it. After that, done with no quarantines. I considered starting the new tank with live rock, just didnt because of the pest issue (mainly coral pest concerned about), but I still believe in microfauna helping with maintaining a healthy tank. Im a veterinarian by trade, so Im well versed in immunology and environmental effects on animals. That is why I say that both methods are right and wrong at the same time. For me a happy medium is quarantine for the tank nukers (ich, velvet, red bugs, zoanthid spiders, vermetid snails and such) and try to boost the healthy microfauna as much as possible. So it waa never a turn from o e or the other, it is a maturing of my hobbist mindset with a science and medicine background.

 

[gbroadbridge]

These fish (7total) were purchased from a VERY reputable LFS in my area. I placed them in quarantine…
Three days later 6 were dead or dying.
Look at last pic

Ouch, that hurts.

 

[Paul B]

I’m not understanding why why QT would be undesirable.

It is not undesirable in your new tank.

 

[flyfisher2]

What filtration are you using for this tank?
How do you deal with ammonia and the products of the nitrogen cycle?
I forgot if you said it, but are this fish in process?

I use a hob filter and I seeded it with a bag of bio media which I had in my sump.
Obviously this is not going back due to the copper and or possibility of introducing any diseases to the display. Ammonia is at zero based on Salifert test.
The fish are in their second week since the last introduction.
I do a once a week 4 gallon water change to which I add copper in order to maintain proper levels.
I purchased the Hanna Copper test kit and can’t say it enough. Throw away the API! Pure garbage.
The Hanna gave me a number and based on my dosage I can accept it to make sense and be more accurate.

 

[flyfisher2]

Nice he did clean up nicely.

I noticed that there is rock in the tank ... is this a pick at the LFS?

The tank was another 40 which I was using as an observation quarantine, low salinity, and no meds.
That system was torn down, sterilized, and rebuilt into the current tank I shared.

 

[flyfisher2]

I went with dead rock this time as I have gotten multiple undesirable pest over the years with aiptasia being one Im still dealing with in my nano. In addition, Im not risking ich or velvet if possible, so everything is quarantined to at least out last those two. Ich I got in my first reef tank around 2004 or so, killed a few fish at times, but overall managable and didnt completely nuke the tank. Didnt quarantine, and was young enough and dumb enough it never crossed my mind. If it was healthy and eating in the fish store...it went in the tank. Life moved on, those tanks were taken down, but I kept a 29gallon which I still have now because of a mean butt maroon clown. Had him 13 years and his partner, an 8 year old yellow watchman goby until in 2018 I purchased a seemingly healthy eating blue sided wrasse (I was starting to stock my 500 at that time). Well 2 days later it developed velvet and died, also taking my maroon clown and the watchman goby with it. After that, done with no quarantines. I considered starting the new tank with live rock, just didnt because of the pest issue (mainly coral pest concerned about), but I still believe in microfauna helping with maintaining a healthy tank. Im a veterinarian by trade, so Im well versed in immunology and environmental effects on animals. That is why I say that both methods are right and wrong at the same time. For me a happy medium is quarantine for the tank nukers (ich, velvet, red bugs, zoanthid spiders, vermetid snails and such) and try to boost the healthy microfauna as much as possible. So it waa never a turn from o e or the other, it is a maturing of my hobbist mindset with a science and medicine background.

I do believe and agree that a healthy mature system benefits the existing fish but if a foreign pathogen is introduced via a new fish or contamination then all bets are off.
if your present fish can fight off diseases in your closed system that to me is a balanced system and should work well until it becomes unbalanced and that can be a result of something as simple as a power outage or addition of a diseased specimen which will stress the system enough to have some disease pop up.
It seems to be that the variables outweigh the the likelihood of success and make the argument for quarantine all the more compelling.

 

[gbroadbridge]

I do believe and agree that a healthy mature system benefits the existing fish but if a foreign pathogen is introduced via a new fish or contamination then all bets are off.
if your present fish can fight off diseases in your closed system that to me is a balanced system and should work well until it becomes unbalanced and that can be a result of something as simple as a power outage or addition of a diseased specimen which will stress the system enough to have some disease pop up.
It seems to be that the variables outweigh the the likelihood of success and make the argument for quarantine all the more compelling.

If you have a stable mature tank, and healthy happy well fed fish, I think the likelyhood of them being overwhelmed by a pathogen is quite unlikely.

The problem is immature systems, like my current recent build do not have the maturity or stability to keep the fish in 100% condition, thus my recent unfortunate death of a beautiful blue tang.

The only solution is time and slowly adding new stuff to the tank. I don't think bottled bac products really help much past cycling a tank.

I'm not yet convinced that quarantining fish will help. You need to increase diversity, not kill it off by sterilising everything.

Before somone points out that I recently posted that I'm going to QT everything, yes I changed my mind. It's pointless and counterproductive. I will still QT some high risk fish, but I'm not going to 72 days fallow as I have more than one tank

Regards
Graham.