Q for everyone are you FOR or AGAINST QT

For or against QT


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gbroadbridge

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Was Brandon calling me out on something? I guess I will never know I granted him the ignore button long ago. He is a complete expert on fish since he has never kept one. Kind of like how people are experts on how to raise children but never had any themselves LOL!

I gather from the exchange that he does not realize I started and ran a successful aquaium manufacturing business, maintenance business, and designed and built out complete stores all before the Internet was "the thing". I cut my business teeth on reef aquariums while he was still sucking on lollipops and watching cartoons. That was back in the early days before any commercial light systems, wet/dry filters, and only a hand full of protein skimmer from Sanders. I spent time and money going to places like Quality Marine and learning the wholesale fish and invert game from Phil Shane and others. Such fun in those days!

Good old how much biology can you fit in a jar Brandon. You know maybe we should all get together and gift him a real tank so he can experience fish keeping for real. I have a couple of new tanks in the shop I never sold perhaps I should just send him one. What do you all think?
Chill folks. It's a hobby not flying an A380 with 500 passengers
 

gbroadbridge

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@gbroadbridge, Do you fly for a living? Just jealous if you do...perhaps in another life!
No, I just fly model aircraft.

But my best friend does fly A380 and B747-400 for Qantas. Or he did before all the 747's were scrapped due to COVID.

He currently is back flying A330's international after being stood down down for over 18 months and working stacking supermarket shelves.

He does have a tropical FW tank, though.

That's where my comment came from. This is just a hobby for most of us and life is too short for all the bickering.
 

Paul B

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I agree, all these "youngsters" fighting. :D

The 1970s to me feels like yesterday. Oh wait, I think it was yesterday. I think I can barely hear "Yellow Submarine" by the Beatles. :oops:

I was born the year after they invented TV. Thats that huge "cell phone" in your living room that doesn't text and you never watch any longer because you would rather watch "The Ten Commandments" with a cast of thousands on your 1 1/2" cell phone screen. :p
 

Squidward

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Wow thank you for the responses. :)

A few more questions if you don't mind.

How many fish have you processed through during this time?
Did you have any losses?

Do you still have fresh water aquariums?
When did you start your first salt water aquarium? When you started to do salt water have you done it continously?

Have you always quarantined? If not was there some event that caused you to start?

Thanks for answering. I am trying to pin down what people do for quarantine and how they do it. I think there is a lot of information lost and it would be helpful for other people to see what people are doing with QT.
Over 40 fish went through TTM. Yes I've had at least 2 blue hippos that died in qurantine. They just never made it through. And I've had 4 convict tangs die. They are harder to adjust to captivity as even Humblefish agrees. I've had the same problem with Lavendar tangs believe it or not. I currently have just under 30 fish in my display.

No I don't have freshwater anymore. I was big on african cichlids even selling Zaire Frontosa fry online for $25 a pop. I miss the breeding, but don't miss the weekly/bi-weekly water changes.

I started Saltwater in 2008. Didn't know too much just kind of rushed in and bought a ton of fancy expensive corals mainly Aussie Acans. They were so beautiful but everything eventually crashed. I went from a 90g to a 150g to a 35g and now a 300g. I had a horrible Velvet case around 2014 era and killed all of my fish. I was depressed and bummed out. Downgraded to the 35g with only a pair of clowns. I lost interest until I saw a facebook member post his tank with tons of beautiful tangs. I asked him how did he manage to keep all these impressive tangs without ich. He told me he did TTM. He was my inspiration. Wish I remembered his name. So I decided next time I get a big tank (2019) I would do whatever it takes to properly do TTM and have a successful Ich free tank. I couldn't care less for corals anymore as I've always been a Fish guy. So here I am now with a tank full of all the ich magnet Tangs I've ever wanted. I don't have to worry about any stress suddenly making ich appear. They can fight and swim around all day and no worries of ich ever.
 

HuduVudu

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Over 40 fish went through TTM. Yes I've had at least 2 blue hippos that died in qurantine. They just never made it through. And I've had 4 convict tangs die. They are harder to adjust to captivity as even Humblefish agrees. I've had the same problem with Lavendar tangs believe it or not. I currently have just under 30 fish in my display.

No I don't have freshwater anymore. I was big on african cichlids even selling Zaire Frontosa fry online for $25 a pop. I miss the breeding, but don't miss the weekly/bi-weekly water changes.

I started Saltwater in 2008. Didn't know too much just kind of rushed in and bought a ton of fancy expensive corals mainly Aussie Acans. They were so beautiful but everything eventually crashed. I went from a 90g to a 150g to a 35g and now a 300g. I had a horrible Velvet case around 2014 era and killed all of my fish. I was depressed and bummed out. Downgraded to the 35g with only a pair of clowns. I lost interest until I saw a facebook member post his tank with tons of beautiful tangs. I asked him how did he manage to keep all these impressive tangs without ich. He told me he did TTM. He was my inspiration. Wish I remembered his name. So I decided next time I get a big tank (2019) I would do whatever it takes to properly do TTM and have a successful Ich free tank. I couldn't care less for corals anymore as I've always been a Fish guy. So here I am now with a tank full of all the ich magnet Tangs I've ever wanted. I don't have to worry about any stress suddenly making ich appear. They can fight and swim around all day and no worries of ich ever.
Good info, thank your for responding. :)
 

costaricareef

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No, I just fly model aircraft.

But my best friend does fly A380 and B747-400 for Qantas. Or he did before all the 747's were scrapped due to COVID.

He currently is back flying A330's international after being stood down down for over 18 months and working stacking supermarket shelves.

He does have a tropical FW tank, though.

That's where my comment came from. This is just a hobby for most of us and life is too short for all the bickering.
What do you fly? I have ben flying helicopters for as long as I've been in saltwater!! Since 2000. Some scale. Cool.
 

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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see if owning fish is required to discern this status among arguments:

advocates of no preps: have zero work threads using others tanks, all examples of how to stock a new reef are the retelling of 20 years of practice history but dont involve any links I can read to verify any of it, using updated examples lets say from 2020 onward. They have no forums here or on other boards I can find the info, 100% of their advice comes from them owning fish and telling folks to skip preps as more fish die in quarantine than by just winging it. We can select anyone's full post history here at rtr, and see if they spend their time talking about their own tanks or helping others, and when that's done for no prep advocates, I can't find a single example of them starting a build and seeing it through to full fish stocking with no preps, though this is what they advocate here in this forum where fallow and qt are the rule not the exception. Everything they post cannot be verified as its either an example from the past, or their own tank where they control all pics disclosures and updates. Independent verification does not exist for the skip qt crew.


or contrast that with:

fallow and qt preps are what a person who runs a zoo uses to control losses in million-dollar facilities. I don't know a single thing about Jay's reef tank, or the fish he keeps, because all his work when I click his history directly involves helping others using a repeatable method accurate to this forum, and, if I click on their histories I can get a general idea of how his advice is working out in pattern. I can specifically find the supporting info from qt and fallow advocate research that is missing from the skip-preps crew. There are other boards with info like rtr's disease forum: Humblefish's forum. So qt and fallow have multiple forums using solely other people's tanks with third party verifications in place, to the degree I dont even know what Humblefish has at home: his work is all in other's tanks. see the pattern developing?


So tell me, is it deflection to say that since I dont own fish I can't simply read and find patterns of success or failure or not any documentation at all? Weak argument for non prep in my opinion. I don't have to keep fish in order to cycle a thousand reefs/ clickable with links, in other people's tanks/ and direct them here for direct and accountable practices with inspectable patterns using relevant reefs from today's sourcing.
 
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brandon429

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I cycle up a lot, a lot, of other people's reef tanks and the #1 thing they want to know is when to stock fish. The cycling is the easy part we show, for years, the tough part is disease preps and I aim them here because Lowell doesn't have a forum I can refer to, or Paul, just Jay.

Honestly if Lowell and Paul were given a forum to work their advice and let it play out as evaluated by third parties, we could consider referring to their advice but I can't rightly have a person who just completed cycling in a bare white rock setup using bottle bac emulate what Paul does, his tank is ocean rocks with ocean water and the best feeding humanly possible. I always recommend they at least uptake Paul's feeding advice, I can relay that even without a practice forum.

See how I don't have to own a 150 gallon reef in order to cycle and log about 400 of them? That's why ownership doesn't matter the way Lowell makes it sound. The only thing that matters is when you click on someone's badge name and see updates after they use rules from updated cycling science, they're happy vs crashed.

Third party verifications are available to validate cycle end dates in droves, its not terrible or mean to request this same basic effort from Lowell or any others.

Its pure deflection to take away from this poll and recommend oppositely to new tankers, what this poll clearly shows in majority is what you should relay to new tankers, its obvious.
 

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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I have no agenda whatsoever, I want my newly cycled tanks to be referred to the best disease prevention location they can self-study, and this is the best I can find. isn't that really simple?

what I want to avoid: cycling up a new reef, their LFS has a bunch of fish they want which the tank really can carry because we built the filter system to do so, but they get directed to someone's confusing and unrepeatable no prep offers that come from customers they serviced in 1998. Referring folks here, to this forum or to humblefish's forum, is specifically better and wastes less fish and makes Jay and Humblefish accountable for writing the prescribed steps because I dont have to take their word that it works, I can discern that (even as a non fish owner) by reading solely third party evals or clicking on someones badge that used Jay's advice 6 months ago and see if that same load of fish is present today.


owning fish, or large tanks, is 100% not required to manage both large tanks and fish, that's my case and there are links to prove it across forums. my reef weighs eight pounds completely full and running, you could pick it up and take it to the grocery store and back he he. You can bet that little rascal never had a stalled cycle that's for sure~

fallow for 17 yrs/ ich free
 
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HuduVudu

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see if owning fish is required to discern this status among arguments:
If you take your driver's training course from someone that has never driven a car then that's on you. I personally would never do it for obvious reasons.

But please Brandon continue on with you impressive resume. I find it funny that you point the finger at others popping in here and giving advice about their experiences, but here you are and you have no experience to share. SMDH.
 

brandon429

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When I clicked view on your post I thought you were going to have some updated works we could see. that’s more neutral stance posting.


don’t try and sway from the simple fact newly cycled reefs want something clear to repeat regarding prepping the tank for fish. this poll gives them a strong insight of what the majority does here.


my advice to new reefers is to study the stickies here and implement them, how hard is that? Got anything better or more succinct I could relay?


anyone can hop right now into the new tanks forum, grab some of the daily cycle challenges, work them, and build up your counter examples. It’s not hard, it’s just avoided by those with the most passionate anti qt advice.
 

brandon429

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I like to leave an accountability trail for advice given, so it can be inspected far after the fact for patterns and can be shaped if needed for future advice. A cycled reef either lived or died, it’s simple. I can’t get any clear stances from what you’re saying Hudu, none at all.


for example I can’t find any links of systems you produced remotely using a particular fish disease method, can you link one please
 

Justin_Reef

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First few tanks - never QT'd and eventually lost most fish. Always felt bad, but found ways to justify it. Until I realized how irresponsible this was.

Next few tanks - I started to QT and things did not get much better. I was setting up a QT the day before I would go buy fish, or even same day and it only provided an incredibly stressful situation for already stressed fish. It was a sterile, uncycled environment (I used a sponge from the display but that was never enough). Basically a death trap.

New tank - Finally I decided to set up a QT tank that is always running. It's a 40 breeder with rock, sand, HOB filter, powerhead, light, ect. All fish go here for observation. If they get sick, then I set up my hospital tank (not always running). If they spend two months in the QT and show no signs of anything, then into the main tank.

If the QT is exposed to any diseases, it goes fallow for 3 or 4 months. It's empty quite often. It has an auto-feeder to ghost feed it. This is 3 or 4 months that I can't get fish, but oh well.

Since doing this, I have still lost some fish to disease, but not a single fish from my display has died other than a 9 year old butterfly which died of 'old age'.

It's really, really easy and makes everything so much less stressful.
 

gbroadbridge

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What do you fly? I have ben flying helicopters for as long as I've been in saltwater!! Since 2000. Some scale. Cool.
T-Rex 550 heli, plus a pile of fixed wing. Not much good with the heli. 3D not for me.

I was taught to fly both by the Qantas Pilot. He is real good with whatever he flies, as you would hope
 

costaricareef

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T-Rex 550 heli, plus a pile of fixed wing. Not much good with the heli. 3D not for me.

I was taught to fly both by the Qantas Pilot. He is real good with whatever he flies, as you would hope
Very cool. I fly mostly SAB Black Thunder 700s (electric) and a couple of smaller nitros from the earlier days. Miniature Aircraft X-Cells. 3d not for me either. I think those guys have another set of brain cells to do that stuff! Yes to acrobatics and a little scale flying with an 800 Bell 430 that took me 5 years to build!!!
 

Sean_B

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don’t try and sway from the simple fact newly cycled reefs want something clear to repeat regarding prepping the tank for fish. this poll gives them a strong insight of what the majority does here.

this poll gives a strong insight of what the majority does here that are speaking up, not exactly a "controlled" data collection. I am not convinced either way, just saying...................................
my advice to new reefers is to study the stickies here and implement them, how hard is that? Got anything better or more succinct I could relay?

my, limited at best, personal common sense to new reefers is to study many forums, many digital articles, many books, many experienced reefers etc. when seeking for school of thought (no pun intended).

anyone can hop right now into the new tanks forum, grab some of the daily cycle challenges, work them, and build up your counter examples. It’s not hard, it’s just avoided by those with the most passionate anti qt advice.

not directed intentionally at this post, but this poor "horse"
 

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brandon429

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Can you post a link of a few reef tanks you set up for others so we can track them out a few months? Since you wanted to keep the memes going you know I’ll ask for that.


and if you don’t provide it, I’ll be used to that.


rn in the new tanks forum all the peers are telling this guy not to qt or do any tank prep, they didn’t qt, and the new reefer will be misled so no the issue isn’t dead it’s currently in action- wasting fish then buying more. It’s folks who never manage any other tanks and choose what portion of their narrative to release that is the training problem for new reefers. Outside this forum, everyone is the disease control master. I’m not going to get any examples from you/ excuses coming is that correct
 

A worm with high fashion and practical utility: Have you ever kept feather dusters in your reef aquarium?

  • I currently have feather dusters in my tank.

    Votes: 70 37.4%
  • Not currently, but I have had feather dusters in my tank in the past.

    Votes: 63 33.7%
  • I have not had feather dusters, but I hope to in the future.

    Votes: 25 13.4%
  • I have no plans to have feather dusters in my tank.

    Votes: 28 15.0%
  • Other.

    Votes: 1 0.5%
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