QT deaths

Loodvic

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Hello,

I'm having a disaster and trying to avert another one.

Our DT had an outbreak of Ich and following advice we set up a QT. I visited LFS showed a picture of the ich and he recommended a reef safe treatment.

This didn't work and I have since learned that Ich cannot be treated in a reef safe way. You have to QT and treat with copper. Sadly this came too late for our coral beauty and Banghai.

We saved two clown fish and a yellow tang. I began copper treatment with Aquacare marine anti-parasite yesterday, which contains Copper Sulphate 1600mg/100ml and Formaldehyde 2040 mg / 100ml.

The fish seemed to look much better, but following the second dose of treatment one of the clown fish has just died today. So upsetting.

So now we only have 2 fish left. I need to treat the ich but don't want to kill with copper.

Dosage is for 50l tank and 12 days as follows.

Day 1 - 1.25ml
Day 2 - 2.5ml
Day 3 - 1.25ml
Day 4 - 2.5ml
Day 5 - 1.25ml
Day 6 - 0
Day 7 - 1.25ml
Day 8 - 0
Day 9 - 1.25ml
Day 10 - 0
Day 11 - 1.25ml
Day 12 - 00


I am going to have to keep fish in QT for 76 days, can I reduce the dosage by half and do it for 24 days?

Or shall I forget copper and try hypo-salinity?

Thanks,
Loodvic
 

Doctorgori

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Sorry for your loss. Copper has to be maintained at therapeutic levels and needs to be tested continually.
I used Hyposalinity before with mixed results, but thats just IME, I’m sure others have had success
 
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Loodvic

Loodvic

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Thanks. I've ordered copper test kit and am I correct that therapeutic levels need to be kept at 0.2?
 

Maritimer

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What type of copper (Ionic, such as Cupramine or Chelated, such as CopperSafe or Copper Power) are you using, and which test kit?

Not all test kits work with both types of copper (most work with either one or the other), and the dosage is different for the two different types.

~B.
 

Jay Hemdal

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Two observations - once fish loss due to ich has begun in a group of fish, even prompt treatment with copper often won't stop additional losses from occurring. This leads to people blaming the copper treatment for the loss, but the reality is the fish loss just takes some time to slow/stop. Second - I've never heard of dosing copper and formalin in the same medication. I looked it up and their dosing schedule indicates to me that they are using low doses of both formalin and copper, and no mention was made of using a test kit. To be effective, copper needs to be dosed at a certain level, and that is pretty close to the toxic level, so I don't know of ANY way to treat with copper and not use a test kit to check levels daily.

Jay

p.s. - I just saw your later post about getting a copper test kit. While that's good, beware that different copper formulations have different working dosages, and your product mkay have a different proper dose than the ones we are used to in the US.
 

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Sorry for your losses it’s a cruel hobby sometimes.
 
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Loodvic

Loodvic

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Sorry for your losses it’s a cruel hobby sometimes.
Thanks for your replies. I've sadly lost another clown fish. Just a yellow tang left now. You've made me somewhat nervous about my copper treatment. I'll post up some pictures of the bottle and ingredients when I get home. In the short term I've done a water change to dilute the copper and begun hypo-salinity.

This will buy me more time to research the copper treatment. I'm tempted to ditch the one we've bought and get a more recognised one that you guys know.
 
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Loodvic

Loodvic

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Thanks for your replies. I've sadly lost another clown fish. Just a yellow tang left now. You've made me somewhat nervous about my copper treatment. I'll post up some pictures of the bottle and ingredients when I get home. In the short term I've done a water change to dilute the copper and begun hypo-salinity.

This will buy me more time to research the copper treatment. I'm tempted to ditch the one we've bought and get a more recognised one that you guys know.
 

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Maritimer

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It contains copper ... an element (noting that it doesn't indicate whether the copper is in Ionic or Chelated form) ... it treats for 12 days, with some product being added each day. I will admit to being puzzled, as copper shouldn't be able to break down in aquarium water . . .

I think I've run up against the difference between British aquarium medications and those in the United States . . .

~B.
 
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Loodvic

Loodvic

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Update :

My yellow tang has survived in QT under hypo-salinity. The 30 days are up on Jan 7th. There are no signs of ich but I'm still inclined to treat with Cupramine particularly as the DT fallow period won't end until Feb 16th. Can I treat with cupramine at the current salinity level and therefore use freshwater dosage of Cupramine. This would be preferable.

Or should i increase the salinity first, back to DT levels, before i treat with Cupramine?

Thanks in advance.
 

Tamberav

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I would bring up salinity as copper toxicity increases at lower salinity I believe. Since FW and SW ich are different parasites... I would not treat with a FW dose.
 

BeckyW

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This was a great follow!!! I'm in the process of moving all my fish to 3 hospital tanks to treat copper (ick in my DT). I started treatment in the first tank yesterday. I've been nervous about treating with copper because it's my first time but one of my HT will become my QT after fallow period. So hard loosing my fish buddies. I'm empowered to hear others with great experience. Now if I could just catch all my fish... :)
 
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Loodvic

Loodvic

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This was a great follow!!! I'm in the process of moving all my fish to 3 hospital tanks to treat copper (ick in my DT). I started treatment in the first tank yesterday. I've been nervous about treating with copper because it's my first time but one of my HT will become my QT after fallow period. So hard loosing my fish buddies. I'm empowered to hear others with great experience. Now if I could just catch all my fish... :)
I decided to do HypoSalinity first for 30 days on my one surviving yellow tang. If your fish are ill I think this is a great way to start because it gives your fish an immediate break and also kills the ick. You have 76 days to go fallow on your DT in any case. But I'm new to this and would like to hear others thoughts on this. I'm starting Cupramine on Monday just to be double sure. I've promised myself I will never have an ick problem again.
 

Jay Hemdal

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I decided to do HypoSalinity first for 30 days on my one surviving yellow tang. If your fish are ill I think this is a great way to start because it gives your fish an immediate break and also kills the ick. You have 76 days to go fallow on your DT in any case. But I'm new to this and would like to hear others thoughts on this. I'm starting Cupramine on Monday just to be double sure. I've promised myself I will never have an ick problem again.
Are you running hypo and copper at the same time? I’ve seen people have issues doing that as the copper is more toxic in FW.
Jay
 
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Loodvic

Loodvic

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Are you running hypo and copper at the same time? I’ve seen people have issues doing that as the copper is more toxic in FW.
Jay
No, I've been bringing the QT tank out if hypo and up to full salinity gradually for over a week. Starting copper Monday at full salinity. But I was wondering if hypo should always be the first stage of an ich outbreak QT tank. You have 76 days to wait so you might as well perform hypo first (gives your fish immediate relief) - then full salinity- then copper. Is this correct?
 

Jay Hemdal

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No, I've been bringing the QT tank out if hypo and up to full salinity gradually for over a week. Starting copper Monday at full salinity. But I was wondering if hypo should always be the first stage of an ich outbreak QT tank. You have 76 days to wait so you might as well perform hypo first (gives your fish immediate relief) - then full salinity- then copper. Is this correct?
Hmmm, I’m not sure! I usually run copper first and then hypo for Neobenedenia flukes, but I can’t think of a good reason why that couldn’t be reversed.
Jay
 

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