QT success 30 day 3.5ppm copper

lakai

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Sep 22, 2018
Messages
677
Reaction score
714
Just wanted to share my recent QT experience with copper power.

1x powder blue tang, 1x hippo tang, 1 melanarus wrasse, 1 blackcap basslet, 3 azure damsels.

Finished 30 days of QT in copper power at 3.5ppm. All are alive, well extremely active the whole time.

Why 3.5ppm ?? I started with 1ppm and was increasing to 2.5ppm within a week like I usually do and, well I miscalculated dosage and it tested 3.5 with hanna checker so I tested again and it came out the same. The fish all seemed to be doing really well so I just took a risk and left alone. I did a 10 gallon water change 2 weeks into therapeutic levels with copper dosed into the new water to 2.5ppm and it tested 3.3ppm.

Just wanted to share this as a data point or if you've overdosed copper power there is no need to panic if the fish look like they are doing ok.
 
Fritz

MnFish1

10K Club member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 28, 2016
Messages
10,650
Reaction score
11,547
Just wanted to share my recent QT experience with copper power.

1x powder blue tang, 1x hippo tang, 1 melanarus wrasse, 1 blackcap basslet, 3 azure damsels.

Finished 30 days of QT in copper power at 3.5ppm. All are alive, well extremely active the whole time.

Why 3.5ppm ?? I started with 1ppm and was increasing to 2.5ppm within a week like I usually do and, well I miscalculated dosage and it tested 3.5 with hanna checker so I tested again and it came out the same. The fish all seemed to be doing really well so I just took a risk and left alone. I did a 10 gallon water change 2 weeks into therapeutic levels with copper dosed into the new water to 2.5ppm and it tested 3.3ppm.

Just wanted to share this as a data point or if you've overdosed copper power there is no need to panic if the fish look like they are doing ok.
I will partly agree and partly disagree. Its always best to use the correct dose for a lot of reasons. 1) your test might have been inaccurate and 2) copper doesn't cause necessarily 'immediate damage' - but can cause long term mortality (i.e. weeks later). 3) sometimes people get the idea if people say '3.3 or 3.5' is no reason to panic - they might not panic when its 4.0. 4) you may have been lucky.

Im glad, though, that your fish did well! Most medications have a 'therapeutic window', and you're correct - that usually they don't put the 'recommended dose' that close to the 'toxic dose'.
 
OP
lakai

lakai

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Sep 22, 2018
Messages
677
Reaction score
714
Im glad, though, that your fish did well! Most medications have a 'therapeutic window', and you're correct - that usually they don't put the 'recommended dose' that close to the 'toxic dose'.
I'm glad you pointed out every reason why my claim might not be valid. I would like to give you full details so that you may find more ways to discredit my claim or attribute the experience to further tell me how bad I screwed up even if the result in anyone's eyes would be considered a success.

I've screwed up enough in the past and gained the knowledge and experience to deduce this to more than just luck. Yes, overdosing was a mistake. Leaving the dosage where it was while being confident that fatality at that point is very low was not a mistake. :)
 

MnFish1

10K Club member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 28, 2016
Messages
10,650
Reaction score
11,547
I'm glad you pointed out every reason why my claim might not be valid. I would like to give you full details so that you may find more ways to discredit my claim or attribute the experience to further tell me how bad I screwed up even if the result in anyone's eyes would be considered a success.

I've screwed up enough in the past and gained the knowledge and experience to deduce this to more than just luck. Yes, overdosing was a mistake. Leaving the dosage where it was while being confident that fatality at that point is very low was not a mistake. :)
You're welcome. I'm sorry - Your claim is not valid. Its not a good idea - except the fact that no-one needs to 'panic' - with that I agree. And I said it. IMHO - if someone sees a level that is 50 percent higher than that recommended - they should dilute it down until the levels are correct. I mean - If I made a post saying 'I quarantined 5 fish at a copper level of 1.5 and they all made it, so if your copper level is too low, don't panic', my guess is there would be plenty of criticism. Its the same thing. Follow the directions, dose to the correct level. But again - I agree no reason to panic.
 

piranhaman00

2500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Jun 24, 2019
Messages
2,914
Reaction score
2,662
Copper doesn’t cause immediate damage. You could see the effects weeks or months from now and not understand what is happening. Never go above 2.25ppm
 
Lazys Coral House

D E N I N O

Community Member
View Badges
Joined
Oct 28, 2018
Messages
38
Reaction score
78
Dosing at 3.5ppm might not kill the fish but there's no advantage to it either. Therapeutic will kill everything it's meant to, rising above 2.5ppm is rather pointless and just leaves you less room for error at the top end.
 

MnFish1

10K Club member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 28, 2016
Messages
10,650
Reaction score
11,547
What kind of damage should I expect weeks and months from now may I ask ?
Here is a couple articles (below) - one is from a company that does not use copper, the second is a review from the University of Florida: I did not mean to make you so defensive. There are a lot of people that read this forum (new reef-keepers) - that may use your post as a reason 'not to do anything if copper levels are elevated'. IMHO your comments need to be rebutted. This article explains fairly concisely, your question above:


 
OP
lakai

lakai

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Sep 22, 2018
Messages
677
Reaction score
714
Dosing at 3.5ppm might not kill the fish but there's no advantage to it either. Therapeutic will kill everything it's meant to, rising above 2.5ppm is rather pointless and just leaves you less room for error at the top end.
Like I mentioned. This just happened to be an accidental overdose. Well I wouldn't even call it an overdose since literally out of the 60+ fish I've run through some variation of prophylactic QT over the years, I've never seen fish so active and healthy but I am well aware of the possibility of fatality down the line possibly so only time will tell. My point in making this post is merely to only leave a data point for future reference and not at all advice. I just wanted to leave a note that I have managed to get a good result and maybe this piece of information might be useful to someone down the line.

There was a period not so far in the past that the consensus was that going over 2.0ppm will kill your fish so 1.75ppm was declared the safe top end. Well, the standard now is 2.25-5ppm which I believe was always the recommended dosage on the bottle from the manufacturer.

I understand default response in this hobby is to treat with condescension for speaking about anything outside of the echo chamber and understand that often these concerns are valid. Just relax and I'm just going to share my experience with someone who might find it useful.
 

MnFish1

10K Club member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 28, 2016
Messages
10,650
Reaction score
11,547
I understand default response in this hobby is to treat with condescension for speaking about anything outside of the echo chamber and understand that often these concerns are valid. Just relax and I'm just going to share my experience with someone who might find it useful.

IMHO, no one was treated with 'condescension'. But - it is a 'discussion board' right?, as compared to a 'just post an idea and no one better suggest its 'perhaps improper'? I mostly agreed with your original post, only tried to point out why it might not be generalizable information (which I think is important - for new reefers that might be reading it). There are reasons that MOST people on this forum (at least according to polls) do not QT at all - let alone with high dose copper. My purpose was not at all to criticise or 'be condescending' - but merely point out why your anecdote may not be generalizable. Again - I apologize if my tone suggested otherwise. The first sentence tells it all - I partly agree and I partly disagree.
 
Orphek OR3 reef aquarium LED lighting
OP
lakai

lakai

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Sep 22, 2018
Messages
677
Reaction score
714
Here is a couple articles (below) - one is from a company that does not use copper, the second is a review from the University of Florida: I did not mean to make you so defensive. There are a lot of people that read this forum (new reef-keepers) - that may use your post as a reason 'not to do anything if copper levels are elevated'. IMHO your comments need to be rebutted. This article explains fairly concisely, your question above:



Ty sir, I'm gonna give you some internet points for providing a link to something I've read in the past and helped gain some understanding. I do recall it giving very little data and information in regards to chelated copper other than sharing those details are not as well understood as copper sulfate. I am sorry if you misunderstood my friendly sarcasm as being defensive. Please don't hit me father.
 

[email protected]

Living the Reef Life
View Badges
Joined
Nov 18, 2012
Messages
32,096
Reaction score
44,574
Location
Ontario, California
Like I mentioned. This just happened to be an accidental overdose. Well I wouldn't even call it an overdose since literally out of the 60+ fish I've run through some variation of prophylactic QT over the years, I've never seen fish so active and healthy but I am well aware of the possibility of fatality down the line possibly so only time will tell. My point in making this post is merely to only leave a data point for future reference and not at all advice. I just wanted to leave a note that I have managed to get a good result and maybe this piece of information might be useful to someone down the line.

There was a period not so far in the past that the consensus was that going over 2.0ppm will kill your fish so 1.75ppm was declared the safe top end. Well, the standard now is 2.25-5ppm which I believe was always the recommended dosage on the bottle from the manufacturer.

I understand default response in this hobby is to treat with condescension for speaking about anything outside of the echo chamber and understand that often these concerns are valid. Just relax and I'm just going to share my experience with someone who might find it useful.
First, thanks for sharing your experience. Having a new data point is good so that may spark further investigation on why your experience moves against accepted common wisdom in the hobby.

Second, no one in this conversation has shown any form of condescension to you. They have offered counter points for your (and others) consideration as to why your interpretation of the events may not be correct. IMO this is part of being a responsible community. The other members of this conversation have given some things to consider as to why dosing beyond the recommended levels may have long-term impact that isn't observable in the short-term. These are points that are also valuable for others reading this thread who may not be familiar with common wisdom and practice. Perhaps that common wisdom will be shown to be inaccurate in the future, but for now this is what has been researched and determined to be accepted, so it is reasonable for it to be brought into the conversation.
 

4FordFamily

Tang, Angel, and Wrasse Nerd!
View Badges
Joined
Feb 26, 2015
Messages
20,141
Reaction score
45,908
Location
Carmel, Indiana
For what it's worth, I too have brought some fish through such high levels of copper. I don't recommend it as a normal course of action, however. Certain fish are likely to struggle with it -- wrasse come to mind immediately.

While I see copper as a "necessary evil" at times, and even high amounts of it as such as well -- I just wanted to caution readers with this. Every once in a while you find a nasty bug that the "normal procedure" doesn't cut it for. It's always a risk to increase "medication" (though copper is technically a poison) -- but sometimes a last ditch effort that is deemed necessary. :)
 

Would you consider your tank to be balanced or lopsided when it comes to coral?

  • Balanced Mixed Reef

    Votes: 98 32.7%
  • Lopsided SPS

    Votes: 58 19.3%
  • Lopsided LPS

    Votes: 69 23.0%
  • Lopsided Zoanthids

    Votes: 20 6.7%
  • Lopdsided Soft Corals

    Votes: 43 14.3%
  • Lopsided NPS

    Votes: 1 0.3%
  • Other (please explain)

    Votes: 11 3.7%
UniqueCorals.com shop rare & farmed corls
Top