Quarantine tank not an option... What is next best process?

[Paul B]

Of course I disagree with almost everything so far on this thread but that's just me. You can of course quarantine and many people have success with that method but I prefer to keep my fish and tank natural so they never get sick, not even the 27 year olds.
But most, if not all people will disagree with me and some of them would be correct especially if you are a Noob or if your tank is very new. If that is the case, quarantining may be your only option.

Fish will almost certainly get sick in a new tank if they are not quarantined because a new tank doesn't yet have the bacteria, parasites and viruses that keep our fish normal, natural and healthy.

Quarantined fish will always have to be in with everything that is quarantined because those fish have no immunity. If you quarantine fish you should also have a hospital tank because your fish will most certainly get sick occasionally and have to be treated.
Immune fish never get sick so there is no need for such a tank but in your case I feel you are in a hard place and have a new tank.

I am not sure what to tell you. Good luck

A discussion on immunity

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/a-discussion-on-immunity.209701/

Or, you can read this thread if you don't mind arguments.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/i...y-journey-to-an-immune-reef-hopefully.310714/

 

[ReefWithCare]

If you can’t QT and do the Paul B method - buy from a place like TSM corals who do a real QT process.

 

[Fumanchu]

I would give this a try I haven't used it but I keep some on hand just in case good luck....

 

[Fumanchu]

Sorry didn't see you mentioned it already

 

[tablesalt]

Ex LFS employee here (circa 2004-06 so advice may be dated).

My personal advice on this is, if you can't quarantine, be selective about where you get your fish. If you are ordering online, only purchase captive bred fish. The odds of them being sick are much lower than the wild caught variety which will almost always have parasites of some sort. If you are purchasing from the LFS... be selective. Don't buy fish on the day they come in. The majority of die-off occurs in the first day after arrival, and then goes down drastically... at least from the LFS point of view. Think of it this way, a sick fish is much more likely to die from the stress of shipping and/or arriving in a new environment that a healthy fish. If the LFS gets fish in on Tuesdays, and it is still there the following Monday, swimming around in a tank that looks healthy with no obvious signs of sickness, the odds of it being healthy are higher than the odds of a random fish that comes in on a new stocking day being healthy. Additionally, most LFS are treating their fish for disease all the time. Your LFS probably has a bunch of fish only tanks with not an invertebrate in site clustered together. These are almost always being treated 24x7 with copper, and sometimes with other stuff too. Essentially, you will be purchasing a fish that has been treated with (something) for almost a week.

Can't help with invertebrate quarantine questions other than look at that coral up close the best you can and don't buy livestock that has any signs of disease (or grrr... Aptasia).

With that said I've never had a quarantine tank but have had good luck. My current tank this time around is only 9 months old but I'm not planning on putting anything other than CUC in my tank in the next 6 or so months.

Happy reefing.

 

[joec]

To be blunt, if you dont quarantine, I would suggest another hobby.

 

[tablesalt]

Ex LFS employee here (circa 2004-06 so advice may be dated).

My personal advice on this is, if you can't quarantine, be selective about where you get your fish. If you are ordering online, only purchase captive bred fish. The odds of them being sick are much lower than the wild caught variety which will almost always have parasites of some sort. If you are purchasing from the LFS... be selective. Don't buy fish on the day they come in. The majority of die-off occurs in the first day after arrival, and then goes down drastically... at least from the LFS point of view. Think of it this way, a sick fish is much more likely to die from the stress of shipping and/or arriving in a new environment that a healthy fish. If the LFS gets fish in on Tuesdays, and it is still there the following Monday, swimming around in a tank that looks healthy with no obvious signs of sickness, the odds of it being healthy are higher than the odds of a random fish that comes in on a new stocking day being healthy. Additionally, most LFS are treating their fish for disease all the time. Your LFS probably has a bunch of fish only tanks with not an invertebrate in site clustered together. These are almost always being treated 24x7 with copper, and sometimes with other stuff too. Essentially, you will be purchasing a fish that has been treated with (something) for almost a week.

Can't help with invertebrate quarantine questions other than look at that coral up close the best you can and don't buy livestock that has any signs of disease (or grrr... Aptasia).

With that said I've never had a quarantine tank but have had good luck. My current tank this time around is only 9 months old but I'm not planning on putting anything other than CUC in my tank in the next 6 or so months.

Happy reefing.

One more thing I forgot to add that is easy and can actually cut down on disease chances is to treat the water the fish comes in like poison. Never dump this water into the tank as free floating diseases that are not on the fish can be found in this water. Always use the scoop and dump method after acclimating the fish in the bag.

 

[Gareth elliott]

From reading here and my experiences some ideas for better success.

1). If not familiar with a fish dont get it. Fish that say difficult for whatever reason, dont ship well, hard to get eating, etc. dont get those fish. Your tank is bound to get a parasite and the fish need time to build an immunity. If already malnourished or damaged by shipping the chances of that happening are much lower than with hardier fish.

2). Match as close as you can to the fishes natural environment. Whether that means caves, feeding live foods, low light etc. the less stress the fish has the better chance its immune system will be strong enough to fight off whats in the tank.

3.) stay away from aggressive fish. Theres a reason when you go to the lfs the cichlid tanks have more parasites than a tank of guppies. Fin nipping, endless chasing all take a toll on a fish. If its gets sick while being harassed greater chance it will succumb. So plan live stock carefully. That aggressive wrasse or that purple tang are not the best choices for parasite management.

4.) very important for new fish that you minimize changes. That fish that has been in captivity for 3 years is more accustomed to tweaking, power outages, tank rearranging than one recently plucked out of the ocean and shipped in a cooler for 36 hours.

Ps a qt doesnt need to be permanent. Put some sponge in your sump for several weeks.
Buy a small tank, qt for a month, sell the tank and equipment after cleaning and sanitizing it

 

[theKoolAidMan]

To be blunt, if you dont quarantine, I would suggest another hobby.

And if you don't want to play nice, I would suggest another forum.

 

[Greybeard]

No matter how many people berate you for not setting up a quarantine tank... don't let it bother you. You're not alone. The only reason more folks don't join in is because experience has told us that saying you don't quarantine is going to get you criticized... at a minimum.

No, I don't quarantine... and no, I don't care what others might say about it. Been in this game for many years, have quarantined in the past, and lost more fish doing so than I have without. Removing a fish from it's environment, be it wild caught, or from it's raising tank, if it's captive bred, is stressful. Putting it in a bag and suffering the uncaring handling it'd get in shipment is stressful. This may happen several times before it ever arrives at our homes... and then... we're going to put it in an empty tank (causing more stress), and dose it with medications it may not need? No wonder we're loosing fish.

As for your original question, I don't think any short term dip is going to do anything to resolve any problems that a new fish you bring in might have. Dips don't cure parasites, infections, etc. I will say, this 'safety stop' is a new one on me... I have no opinions on it, as I've never seen it before.

Still, your objective is going to be to not bring home fishes with a problem.

I do not buy fish online. Ever. Too much risk.

I do not buy fish from untrusted sources. Ever.

I do not buy fish on a whim. Ever.

I buy from one shop, I know the owner, know how he treats his tanks, etc. I will have him order fishes for me, and have him keep them for a couple of weeks... where I can see them, observe them over time, make darned sure they're healthy BEFORE I bring them home.

My LFS is providing a quarantine service for me. I value that service... and pay accordingly. Yes... I may pay double for a fish that I get this way over what buying it online might cost... and it's worth it.

Also, I strive to maintain a low stress environment in my reef. Appropriately sized, non aggressive fishes, uncrowded conditions, well fed... I want my fish fat and happy.

 

[Nburg's Reef]

Another option that might be better than LFS, is roam local fish club forums and buy from people unloading their fish. Chances are if the owner is an active reefer, the fish is either QTd before or was able to not get sixk and die and therefore healthy. Might take a while to see something you like, but its often cheaper and you will likely get healthier fish. People breakdown tanks all of the time.

Who knows whats in the water at LFS.

 

[ReefWithCare]

No matter how many people berate you for not setting up a quarantine tank... don't let it bother you. You're not alone. The only reason more folks don't join in is because experience has told us that saying you don't quarantine is going to get you criticized... at a minimum.

No, I don't quarantine... and no, I don't care what others might say about it. Been in this game for many years, have quarantined in the past, and lost more fish doing so than I have without. Removing a fish from it's environment, be it wild caught, or from it's raising tank, if it's captive bred, is stressful. Putting it in a bag and suffering the uncaring handling it'd get in shipment is stressful. This may happen several times before it ever arrives at our homes... and then... we're going to put it in an empty tank (causing more stress), and dose it with medications it may not need? No wonder we're loosing fish.

As for your original question, I don't think any short term dip is going to do anything to resolve any problems that a new fish you bring in might have. Dips don't cure parasites, infections, etc. I will say, this 'safety stop' is a new one on me... I have no opinions on it, as I've never seen it before.

Still, your objective is going to be to not bring home fishes with a problem.

I do not buy fish online. Ever. Too much risk.

I do not buy fish from untrusted sources. Ever.

I do not buy fish on a whim. Ever.

I buy from one shop, I know the owner, know how he treats his tanks, etc. I will have him order fishes for me, and have him keep them for a couple of weeks... where I can see them, observe them over time, make darned sure they're healthy BEFORE I bring them home.

My LFS is providing a quarantine service for me. I value that service... and pay accordingly. Yes... I may pay double for a fish that I get this way over what buying it online might cost... and it's worth it.

Also, I strive to maintain a low stress environment in my reef. Appropriately sized, non aggressive fishes, uncrowded conditions, well fed... I want my fish fat and happy.

I use safety stop before fish go in QT and Melev’s reef used it to stock his 400G tank. I love the product, but it won’t product you from bacterial infections (the only fish I’ve lost in QT have been to bacterial infections [emoji29].

Another thing is to avoid sensitive fish like tangs and go with hardier fish like clownfish, dottyback, damsels, wrasses, rabbitfish, etc. Tangs are known for getting sick easily due to their lack of slime coat. Angels are well known for bacterial infections or poor shipping. Wrasses can ship bad as well, but there are a few like yellow coris wrasses that will ship with better success.

I have QT’ed 9 fish in this cycle I’m going through and have fought through many diseases. I purchased online and local. At this point I’m pretty much done and going with TSM corals even if the fish cost 4 times as much. Their procedure is very similar to mine. They use acraflavin instead of safety stop and they use CP or Copper for 30 days. Only issue is their salinity is lower at 1.020 instead of my usual 1.025.

 

[joec]

And if you don't want to play nice, I would suggest another forum.

I'm providing an opinion just like you.

I'll just move along

 

[oceaninabox12345]

I dont quarantine. I havent since i started the hobby. Never had velet. Had ich a couple of times, but it eventually went away and nothing had died. Only casualties ive had are from a decision before i knew large angelfish were not good for a reef tank.. oops

 

[Greybeard]

...before i knew large angelfish were not good for a reef tank.. oops

Another fallacy

Genicanthus angels are fine additions to a decent sized reef tank. Peaceful, very unlikely to pick on your corals, and quite beautiful, in their own quiet way. I've got a female Spotbreast that I just love. Lamarck's, Watanabei, Bellus... Ok, so they don't have the colors of an Imperator... still, beautiful, peaceful, very reef friendly fishes. And yes, they do get big... I expect my Spotbreast will reach 8 or 9 inches, in time.

 

[oceaninabox12345]

Another fallacy

Genicanthus angels are fine additions to a decent sized reef tank. Peaceful, very unlikely to pick on your corals, and quite beautiful, in their own quiet way. I've got a female Spotbreast that I just love. Lamarck's, Watanabei, Bellus... Ok, so they don't have the colors of an Imperator... still, beautiful, peaceful, very reef friendly fishes. And yes, they do get big... I expect my Spotbreast will reach 8 or 9 inches, in time.

Well, a Koran angel did not go over well, no matter what we tried.

 

[Js.Aqua.Project]

Do you have space for a 5gal bucket and an air pump? While not ideal they will work for QT in a pinch.

If QT is not an option for whatever reason, I recommend using some kind of dip prior to placing the fish in the tank. Whether is is SafetyStop, Hydroplex, or a freshwater dip. But inspect the bottom of the container before you add the fish, if you easily see parasites I highly suggest not adding the fish until it can be QT or observed for a longer time period.

 

[Brew12]

I would consider adding a large population of corals that can potentially eat parasites. The two most common parasites, Ich and Velvet, need a hard surface to attach to. They also will need to swim around to find a hard surface or to find the fish. The more little mouths in the tank, the better. I'm thinking Zoa's, GSP, Duncan's, chalice corals.. basically anything that puts out feelers.

If QT was truly not an option for me, it is what I would do as an insurance policy. No filtration is as good as natural filtration.

 

[Greybeard]

Well, a Koran angel did not go over well, no matter what we tried.

Ummm... No. I love Koran angels... a friend has one the size of a dinner plate... gorgeous. In a reef tank? They'll snack on your corals, and harass your less aggressive fish to death. Sounds like you've already figured that out

 

[ReefWithCare]

Do you have space for a 5gal bucket and an air pump? While not ideal they will work for QT in a pinch.

If QT is not an option for whatever reason, I recommend using some kind of dip prior to placing the fish in the tank. Whether is is SafetyStop, Hydroplex, or a freshwater dip. But inspect the bottom of the container before you add the fish, if you easily see parasites I highly suggest not adding the fish until it can be QT or observed for a longer time period.

Every safety stop dip ended up with a bunch of stuff at bottom. I think it was typically flukes I ended up seeing and lots of fish poop lol.