Quarantine

[Alex’s Reef]

I have a hypothetical.

I work at an aquarium store that sells both saltwater and freshwater fish and supplies and the systems these fish are in is not the cleanest. We have some fish in the system that clearly have ich and velvet and everything else under the sun. I am suggesting to my store owner that I would like to quarantine the sick fish. The reason for this thread is to get an opinion(s).

Let's say I successfully quarantined a sick fish or any fish for that matter and brought it back to health or simply quarantined it. After the quarantine is complete, in a separate system of course, I cannot add the fish back to the holding tanks the store has had set up with all the fish that haven't been quarantined correct? Or is it okay to add the fish back to the store's holding tanks because it has built up a strong immune system through the quarantine treatments? My guess would be I'd have to keep the fish in its own separate holding tank to keep it free of unwanted parasites and diseases from the rest of the fish, am I correct in this way of thinking?

So I guess I have three questions.

Thanks in advance guys.

 

[Jekyl]

It would have to be separated through out until sold. While a good idea, also probably wouldn't be feasible for your boss. The cost of quarantine would have to at least double the cost of fish being sold. Not to mention some fish won't even survive the quarantine.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I have a hypothetical.

I work at an aquarium store that sells both saltwater and freshwater fish and supplies and the systems these fish are in is not the cleanest. We have some fish in the system that clearly have ich and velvet and everything else under the sun. I am suggesting to my store owner that I would like to quarantine the sick fish. The reason for this thread is to get an opinion(s).

Let's say I successfully quarantined a sick fish or any fish for that matter and brought it back to health or simply quarantined it. After the quarantine is complete, in a separate system of course, I cannot add the fish back to the holding tanks the store has had set up with all the fish that haven't been quarantined correct? Or is it okay to add the fish back to the store's holding tanks because it has built up a strong immune system through the quarantine treatments? My guess would be I'd have to keep the fish in its own separate holding tank to keep it free of unwanted parasites and diseases from the rest of the fish, am I correct in this way of thinking?
Ent
So I guess I have three questions.

Thanks in advance guys.

You would need to keep the different groups of fish isolated. That can be a real trick in a retail store - diseases can be transferred on hands, tank tools, nets, and even via aerosols. I remember working in a 300+ tank wholesale company and feeding fish frozen brine shrimp by going tank to tank with it in my hand...just moving diseases from tank to tank with me (sigh).

Jay

 

[Alex’s Reef]

It would have to be separated through out until sold. While a good idea, also probably wouldn't be feasible for your boss. The cost of quarantine would have to at least double the cost of fish being sold. Not to mention some fish won't even survive the quarantine.

Mm I thought so. I'd love to work something out with the store owner but most people in my area don't know what a proper quarantine for a fish even means and the start up costs may be over $300, but if I can find a way to do this I would gladly do it. It would give me the opportunity to teach reefers about the health and longevity of the pet they will be taking home. I am not giving up, I have such a big passion for ocean animals and I care too much lol. Thanks for your quick response!

 

[Alex’s Reef]

You would need to keep the different groups of fish isolated. That can be a real trick in a retail store - diseases can be transferred on hands, tank tools, nets, and even via aerosols. I remember working in a 300+ tank wholesale company and feeding fish frozen brine shrimp by going tank to tank with it in my hand...just moving diseases from tank to tank with me (sigh).

Jay

Yeah, I'd need new nets, new feeding tools and basically new everything. It's kind of like starting my own business.. but in the owners store. It'd be tough to convince the owner but ironically when he hired me he said, ' "Our number one priority is the health of the fish" ', so I'm trying to take that as literally as possible and maybe he will give in and let me do this for select fish; not for every fish mind you, but maybe there's a way to advertise that there's an employee there (me) that offers a quarantine fish service so it's open for anyone. Thanks for your input!

 

[threebuoys]

Do the display tanks share a sump/filtration system? If so, you will have an additional challenge to get and keep everything parasite/infection free.

 

[Alex’s Reef]

Do the display tanks share a sump/filtration system? If so, you will have an additional challenge to get and keep everything parasite/infection free.

Yes, they do but I've already established I'd need to keep the quarantined fish in their own system. It's totally doable, but I feel like I would need to do this on my own time and budget and not the store owners which is totally fine for me.

 

[Azedenkae]

Mm I thought so. I'd love to work something out with the store owner but most people in my area don't know what a proper quarantine for a fish even means and the start up costs may be over $300, but if I can find a way to do this I would gladly do it. It would give me the opportunity to teach reefers about the health and longevity of the pet they will be taking home. I am not giving up, I have such a big passion for ocean animals and I care too much lol. Thanks for your quick response!

On the bright side, you can start charging a premium for these fish you've gone through the trouble of quarantining lol. XD

Pre-quarantined fish commands quite a bit of extra bucks nowadays, though it also makes sense. These quarantined fish you sell would actually be pretty hardy fish that overcame diseases so... yah. I personally would really not mind paying more for these fish than the other ones lol.

 

[dyno]

The best option would be to lower the salinity to 1.008 -1.012 for the entire system. Only if the invertebrate and fish systems are separate. You will be amazed at how good fish do in a lower salinity. I have seen this for years at my local store which keeps a variety of marine fish at that salinity until sold. I doubt the owner would let you add copper and antibiotics directly into the main system right? Quarantining for a large number of fish that would go back into the same system does not seem feasible.

 

[Lowell Lemon]

Since it is central filtration does the holding system have a proper sized U.V. Sterilization? If not this would go a long way toward healthier fish system wide. PM me if you have questions and I can give you suggestions for proper design for this common sump system.

Also a question for @Jay Hemdal. To your knowledge does the majority of sea water parasites resist very low PH levels or are they toxic to them?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

The best option would be to lower the salinity to 1.008 -1.012 for the entire system. Only if the invertebrate and fish systems are separate. You will be amazed at how good fish do in a lower salinity. I have seen this for years at my local store which keeps a variety of marine fish at that salinity until sold. I doubt the owner would let you add copper and antibiotics directly into the main system right? Quarantining for a large number of fish that would go back into the same system does not seem feasible.

Hyposalinity is best targeted for exactly 1.009. Any less and you start to see bad reactions in more fish and any higher than 1.010 and the Cryptocaryon can still replicated. Also remember - hypo does nothing to control Amyloodinium/velvet and while the fish are in hypo, they cannot be sold because people would take them home and kill them acclimating them to normal specific gravity too quickly.

Jay

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Since it is central filtration does the holding system have a proper sized U.V. Sterilization? If not this would go a long way toward healthier fish system wide. PM me if you have questions and I can give you suggestions for proper design for this common sump system.

Also a question for @Jay Hemdal. To your knowledge does the majority of sea water parasites resist very low PH levels or are they toxic to them?

In my opinion, pH has no affect on fish parasites in a range that would be tolerated by the fish themselves (say 7.5 to 8.3)

Jay

 

[Lowell Lemon]

In my opinion, pH has no affect on fish parasites in a range that would be tolerated by the fish themselves (say 7.5 to 8.3)

Jay

The reason I ask is that often Ph is very low in trans-shipments and I wondered if that might kill parasites. It seems to me pH below 7.5 occures quite often in long trans-ships. That is why we used Co2 over a 24+ hour period to slowly raise the pH back to more normal levels for fish to avoid pH shock due to ammonia concentrations in the shipping water and in the fish themselves. Then we placed the fish into holding systems at normal pH and 1.020 to 1.025 salinity with biological, mechanical, protein skimmed with ozone, and UV sterilization before sale or in some store these were the sales systems as well. We had very low loss rates and little or no trouble with disease across the dozen or more stores running this type of system. At least 4 of these stores were called All Pet Complex which was owned and operated in conjunction with full DVM participation. One half of the store was a pet store and the other side was a fully staffed Veterinarian practice. The owner Dr. Marty Becker, ended up involved in Animal Planet for some period of time. Stores were quite successful and animal health seemed to be great!

 

[Jay Hemdal]

The reason I ask is that often Ph is very low in trans-shipments and I wondered if that might kill parasites. It seems to me pH below 7.5 occures quite often in long trans-ships. That is why we used Co2 over a 24+ hour period to slowly raise the pH back to more normal levels for fish to avoid pH shock due to ammonia concentrations in the shipping water and in the fish themselves. Then we placed the fish into holding systems at normal pH and 1.020 to 1.025 salinity with biological, mechanical, protein skimmed with ozone, and UV sterilization before sale or in some store these were the sales systems as well. We had very low loss rates and little or no trouble with disease across the dozen or more stores running this type of system. At least 4 of these stores were called All Pet Complex which was owned and operated in conjunction with full DVM participation. One half of the store was a pet store and the other side was a fully staffed Veterinarian practice. The owner Dr. Marty Becker, ended up involved in Animal Planet for some period of time. Stores were quite successful and animal health seemed to be great!

I’ve seen marine shipping pH levels of 6 or so due to high CO2. I don’t know what affect that would have, but there must be a lot of variation between species. Gill amoeba would certainly be killed, but Neobenedenia eggs would not be. Everything else would be between those extreme examples.

Jay

 

[Lowell Lemon]

I’ve seen marine shipping pH levels of 6 or so due to high CO2. I don’t know what affect that would have, but there must be a lot of variation between species. Gill amoeba would certainly be killed, but Neobenedenia eggs would not be. Everything else would be between those extreme examples.

Jay

Seems like some research would be beneficial to know exactly which organisms would most likely in those conditions. I might narrow the focus to those organisms that would survive as likely to cause disease after transport. We might discover that the main problem is the systems and aquariums they are being transfered to instead of coming from.

 

[Alex’s Reef]

The best option would be to lower the salinity to 1.008 -1.012 for the entire system. Only if the invertebrate and fish systems are separate. You will be amazed at how good fish do in a lower salinity. I have seen this for years at my local store which keeps a variety of marine fish at that salinity until sold. I doubt the owner would let you add copper and antibiotics directly into the main system right? Quarantining for a large number of fish that would go back into the same system does not seem feasible.

Yeah, apparently they tried dosing copper before but it didn't work for them but from what I've seen so far, their implementations are weak and there isn't an employee there other than me that wants to push for quarantining the fish. The store keeps a small amount of coral along with some inverts and anemones in the holding tanks, otherwise I'd suggest to lower the salinity, but that's a great idea. I'd have to keep the quarantined fish separate until sold and I'd want to keep quarantining if it proves profitable for the store owner. For me, I'd care less if I make money, I care about the health of the fish but it's the owners business so it's ultimately up to him unfortunately.

 

[Alex’s Reef]

Since it is central filtration does the holding system have a proper sized U.V. Sterilization? If not this would go a long way toward healthier fish system wide. PM me if you have questions and I can give you suggestions for proper design for this common sump system.

Also a question for @Jay Hemdal. To your knowledge does the majority of sea water parasites resist very low PH levels or are they toxic to them?

No, the system does not have a UV sterilizer, I could suggest the Pentair brand to my store owner and see what he thinks but a UV is not an end game for fish parasites and disease, more like a prevention method so it would need to be used in conjunction with proper fish care and knowing how and when to treat for disease.

Lower pH in a saltwater tank just stresses the fish out more and in turn because the fish is stressed, makes it more susceptible to disease and infection. The lower the pH the more acidic the water. Bad bacteria and parasites can live in all types of ridiculously harsh environments so I don't think pH affects these organisms as much as we might think.

 

[Alex’s Reef]

The reason I ask is that often Ph is very low in trans-shipments and I wondered if that might kill parasites. It seems to me pH below 7.5 occures quite often in long trans-ships. That is why we used Co2 over a 24+ hour period to slowly raise the pH back to more normal levels for fish to avoid pH shock due to ammonia concentrations in the shipping water and in the fish themselves. Then we placed the fish into holding systems at normal pH and 1.020 to 1.025 salinity with biological, mechanical, protein skimmed with ozone, and UV sterilization before sale or in some store these were the sales systems as well. We had very low loss rates and little or no trouble with disease across the dozen or more stores running this type of system. At least 4 of these stores were called All Pet Complex which was owned and operated in conjunction with full DVM participation. One half of the store was a pet store and the other side was a fully staffed Veterinarian practice. The owner Dr. Marty Becker, ended up involved in Animal Planet for some period of time. Stores were quite successful and animal health seemed to be great!

WOW! this sounds amazing, if only my LFS could replicate what Dr. Marty Becker is doing for her store. *sigh*

 

[Lowell Lemon]

WOW! this sounds amazing, if only my LFS could replicate what Dr. Marty Becker is doing for her store. *sigh*

Old stores and sold the chain years ago to others. System design was a tremendous help to my customers.