Question about Chaeto and Refugium

[Faccia di Pesce]

I just started my sump up and put some Chaeto in Refugium section. My display tank is filled with small pieces of Chaeto. How do I stop that?

 

[FangsAndGames]

If your chaetos recent and just came from a store it could be stressed and dissolving a little bit. If you want to stop the problem directly I’d add some sort of barrier such as floss before the fuge reaches the return. If you want to put an end to it make sure that you’re not blasting it with too much light (especially if it’s new you’ll need to acclimate it to high light levels) and make sure the it has something to consume such as nitrates. There are plenty or “potions” too. Maybe dose a small amount of iron or look into chaeto growing products. I’d search on YouTube “bulk reef supply chaeto” for some more insightful help.

 

[Subsea]

If I read some of your thread post correctly, your 40G breeder has been set up < 8 weeks.

What is your fish stocking load and what is nitrogen and phosphorus readings.

Your tank may not be mature enough to grow chaeto yet.

 

[schuby]

Eventually, when your chaeto grows big and you remove some of it (harvest), some small pieces will break off.

I put some coarse filter floss around my return pump inlet. It prevents any rogue pieces of chaeto (and snails) from getting sucked in. Even when the filter floss seems dirty, my flow-rate is unaffected.

 

[rkpetersen]

Chaeto can be very finicky, especially in a newish tank or one with low nutrients.
Also needs the 'right' amount of light and flow, and that often needs to be determined by experimenting.
Chaeto that's failing will feel limp in the hand, not bristly and stiff like healthy chaeto. It will also turn white and start to fragment, which is when you get pieces breaking off and getting in your DT.
Any dying chaeto should be quickly removed. Don't try and save it, just start over with a new batch.
A baffle sponge between the fuge and the return chamber is another way of keeping stray fragments out of the DT.

 

[Faccia di Pesce]

If I read some of your thread post correctly, your 40G breeder has been set up < 8 weeks.

What is your fish stocking load and what is nitrogen and phosphorus readings.

Your tank may not be mature enough to grow chaeto yet.

did not think about that? Was not aware. I will get those numbers shortly.

 

[Faccia di Pesce]

If I read some of your thread post correctly, your 40G breeder has been set up < 8 weeks.

What is your fish stocking load and what is nitrogen and phosphorus readings.

Your tank may not be mature enough to grow chaeto yet.

My Phosphate is 0.14

Nitrate is 5.0 PPM

 

[Faccia di Pesce]

My Phosphate is 0.14

Nitrate is 5.0 PPM

My calcium is 418

 

[Subsea]

The major nutrients, N & P, are fine. Phosphate may be elevated but that is not a problem for chaeto. Macro is most often limited by trace minerals which enter tank with food and partial water changes.

 

[Faccia di Pesce]

The major nutrients, N & P, are fine. Phosphate may be elevated but that is not a problem for chaeto. Macro is most often limited by trace minerals which enter tank with food and partial water changes.

Can you say that in English LOL! Thanks but still new to this. So then my tank is ok for chaeto at this time?

 

[Subsea]

I don’t know if your tank is ready for chaeto unless you provide more information. How long after adding chaeto before noting pieces in display. How is your display tank doing? Are you performing partial water changes, which would bring in trace minerals. Please post a full tank shot with more white light.

N is nitrogen
P is phosphate
K is potassium

These are the Big 3 nutrients for all photosyntic organisms. However, many other conditions are required that will prevent success. Trace minerals are one example.

 

[Faccia di Pesce]

The display tank has cleared up drastically. I put some filter mesh (or whatever you call it) in the baffle and that cleared it up. I am not running my skimmer yet. waiting for a stand that should be here tomorrow or next day. Skimmer has to be in 9 Inches of water and therefore need to raise it up with the stand. So looking good now and sure things will improve once the skimmer is running. Also looking into what else, and how much media I should add to sump.

 

[Faccia di Pesce]

My bio load. I have 2 clown, 2 Damsel, 1 Flame Hawk, 1 Cardinal, 1 Royal Gramma, 1 Yellow Watchman, 1 Cleaner Shrimp. Snails (though two died and I think it was the hermit crabs, one seems to be in need of a larger shell so maybe I need to put a few in?) and hermit crabs. I had a Pistol shrimp who died after a week

 

[Subsea]

Your tank looks good. That fish list is not a heavy bioload and sounds like a lovely community.

First, I don’t think a skimmer is a good idea on a new tank. If you crowd the tank and overfeed, it might be a necessity.

What media are you thinking about and why?

What vision do you have for this tank? If your goal is to run ultra low nutrient and feed hungry SPS then nutrient export needs to be on the heavy side. If your focus is nutrient recycling with diverse filter feeders, than your system design needs to be differrent.

 

[Faccia di Pesce]

Your tank looks good. That fish list is not a heavy bioload and sounds like a lovely community.

First, I don’t think a skimmer is a good idea on a new tank. If you crowd the tank and overfeed, it might be a necessity.

What media are you thinking about and why?

What vision do you have for this tank? If your goal is to run ultra low nutrient and feed hungry SPS then nutrient export needs to be on the heavy side. If your focus is nutrient recycling with diverse filter feeders, than your system design needs to be differrent.

My vision? I just want to have a tank with fish and coral I guess my vision is coming as I go. I want to eventually be able to add both lps and sps. Maybe next year upgrade to a larger tank.

As far as media, just want to know if I am missing anything or what works well in a sump?

 

[schuby]

For my tank of many fish and mostly SPS with a few LPS, my target for phosphate is 0.1-0.2 ppm and my target for Nitrate is 10-20 ppm. I only started running chaeto after regular water-changes didn't keep those values in check. I always ran a skimmer, but it didn't always take much out in the early months.

What you want to be very diligent about is not letting your phosphate (PO4) or nitrate (NO3) levels go to zero. Undesirable things happen to your tank when either of those are zero that can take months to recover. To this point, you shouldn't run chaeto if the effect of it is your phosphate or nitrate get completely removed. A young tank or a lightly-stocked tank doesn't always require every nutrient-export method to be running. If you want to run chaeto with low levels of PO4 and NO3, then just keep the chaeto small. The duration, color, and intensity of the light also affects the growth of chaeto.

Lastly, if your trace levels of Iron go to zero, then the chaeto will die. It may takes months or years (or never) but if your chaeto gets big and grows fast, then it may consume more iron than your water-changes are replacing. This happened to me and it took me 6-8 months to remove all the excess phosphate ( >1.0 ppm) from my system (it binds to your rock and sand). When my chaeto died, it turned grayish-white, thin, and limp. I didn't know at the time what that meant so I try to pass it on to others. It has never died again after I started dosing small amounts of iron, since around 1 1/2 years ago.

 

[Faccia di Pesce]

For my tank of many fish and mostly SPS with a few LPS, my target for phosphate is 0.1-0.2 ppm and my target for Nitrate is 10-20 ppm. I only started running chaeto after regular water-changes didn't keep those values in check. I always ran a skimmer, but it didn't always take much out in the early months.

What you want to be very diligent about is not letting your phosphate (PO4) or nitrate (NO3) levels go to zero. Undesirable things happen to your tank when either of those are zero that can take months to recover. To this point, you shouldn't run chaeto if the effect of it is your phosphate or nitrate get completely removed. A young tank or a lightly-stocked tank doesn't always require every nutrient-export method to be running. If you want to run chaeto with low levels of PO4 and NO3, then just keep the chaeto small. The duration, color, and intensity of the light also affects the growth of chaeto.

Lastly, if your trace levels of Iron go to zero, then the chaeto will die. It may takes months or years (or never) but if your chaeto gets big and grows fast, then it may consume more iron than your water-changes are replacing. This happened to me and it took me 6-8 months to remove all the excess phosphate ( >1.0 ppm) from my system (it binds to your rock and sand). When my chaeto died, it turned grayish-white, thin, and limp. I didn't know at the time what that meant so I try to pass it on to others. It has never died again after I started dosing small amounts of iron, since around 1 1/2 years ago.

so maybe I should remove chaeto for now? I thought we wanted Nitrates to 0?

 

[attiland]

so maybe I should remove chaeto for now? I thought we wanted Nitrates to 0?

No you don’t want 0 nitrate unless you want Dinos to cover everything.
And personally I think you don’t need chaeto yet.

 

[Subsea]

For my tank of many fish and mostly SPS with a few LPS, my target for phosphate is 0.1-0.2 ppm and my target for Nitrate is 10-20 ppm. I only started running chaeto after regular water-changes didn't keep those values in check. I always ran a skimmer, but it didn't always take much out in the early months.

What you want to be very diligent about is not letting your phosphate (PO4) or nitrate (NO3) levels go to zero. Undesirable things happen to your tank when either of those are zero that can take months to recover. To this point, you shouldn't run chaeto if the effect of it is your phosphate or nitrate get completely removed. A young tank or a lightly-stocked tank doesn't always require every nutrient-export method to be running. If you want to run chaeto with low levels of PO4 and NO3, then just keep the chaeto small. The duration, color, and intensity of the light also affects the growth of chaeto.


Lastly, if your trace levels of Iron go to zero, then the chaeto will die. It may takes months or years (or never) but if your chaeto gets big and grows fast, then it may consume more iron than your water-changes are replacing. This happened to me and it took me 6-8 months to remove all the excess phosphate ( >1.0 ppm) from my system (it binds to your rock and sand). When my chaeto died, it turned grayish-white, thin, and limp. I didn't know at the time what that meant so I try to pass it on to others. It has never died again after I started dosing small amounts of iron, since around 1 1/2 years ago.

You have articulated very clearly, cause & effect as well as pros & cons. It took me a boatload of mistakes to get that knowledge. Norwegian philosopher, Niels Boer said an expert was someone that made every possible mistake in their competency. As an expert on macro algae:

Your post should be considered as mandatory to using vegetable filters. Kudos to you. Excellent write up.

 

[Faccia di Pesce]

No you don’t want 0 nitrate unless you want Dinos to cover everything.
And personally I think you don’t need chaeto yet.

thanks. I ditched the chaeto. At this time just seems to be more of a problem than a solution. I will wait till my tank matures some more. Thanks.