Question about cycling with Dr. Tim's One and Only.

malira · Mar 13, 2017

glb said:
Ps- Doesn't the presence of nitrates indicate a cycle is going on

Man you are patient. Which in this hobby is good. I always use biospira. It works and it's local.
You'll be swimming in fish in a few days.

Brew12 · Mar 13, 2017

glb said:
Ps- Doesn't the presence of nitrates indicate a cycle is going on

It does, but it is happening much slower than it should (or maybe more correct to say slower than it typically does). Without bottled bacteria you can expect a cycle to support a light fish load in 3 to 6 weeks. So even if you hadn't tried to add Dr Tims One and Only you should see ammonia dropping faster by now. With the bottled bacteria the process should take days, not weeks.

glb · Mar 13, 2017

Thanks everyone! So I don't need to add Prime to make sure the chlorine/chloramine is gone. I know our tap has both. Just confirming that the. RODI unit removes it. I'm asking because the water smelled a little chlorinated at first. Should I treat my ATO reservoir too just to make sure?

Brew12 · Mar 13, 2017

glb said:
Thanks everyone! So I don't need to add Prime to make sure the chlorine/chloramine is gone. I know our tap has both. Just confirming that the. RODI unit removes it. I'm asking because the water smelled a little chlorinated at first. Should I treat my ATO reservoir too just to make sure?

You are sure your water treatment plant adds chloramine? That could be a problem. Do you have a RODI unit designed to remove chloramine?

Brew12 · Mar 13, 2017

I will add that if your RODI unit isn't designed to handle chloramine it will remove some of it but will burn out the resin very quickly. Using Prime to neutralize the chloramine will work short term but it won't help your RODI filter burning out.
Getting something like this would be helpful to see if it is causing problems.
http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/insta-test-free-total-chlorine-strips-lamotte.html

glb · Mar 13, 2017

Brew12 said:
You are sure your water treatment plant adds chloramine? That could be a problem. Do you have a RODI unit designed to remove chloramine?

Yes I'm sure about the chloramine. I'm not sure about my RODI. It's the Buddy one 100gpd 4-stage. I've used the water in the past without a problem. But, we almost got a hurricane last fall and sometimes they dump more stuff in the water right before. Let me see if I can find the most recent report. Prime will bind chloramine without interrupting the cycle right? Or is letting the water sit overnight enough for it to dissipate?

glb · Mar 13, 2017

Brew12 said:
I will add that if your RODI unit isn't designed to handle chloramine it will remove some of it but will burn out the resin very quickly. Using Prime to neutralize the chloramine will work short term but it won't help your RODI filter burning out.
Getting something like this would be helpful to see if it is causing problems.
http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/insta-test-free-total-chlorine-strips-lamotte.html

My resin has lasted over a year and is still going strong. Let me double check the city water stats.

brandon429 · Mar 13, 2017

Prime is a known adulterant of most nitrite tests, which is why we don't test for nitrite in a cycle assessment, only what ammonia does. false nitrite readings cause madness like the orson welles radio broadcast in the 40s about aliens.

I thought that might be helpful to know in case you are still testing for the three common params in cycling, whereas only ammonia matters in all cycles.

Brew12 · Mar 13, 2017

glb said:
My resin has lasted over a year and is still going strong. Let me double check the city water stats.

I looked it up and you should be just fine with that unit. Doesn't look like this is an issue.

glb · Mar 13, 2017

Brew12 said:
I looked it up and you should be just fine with that unit. Doesn't look like this is an issue.

Thank goodness!

glb · Mar 13, 2017

brandon429 said:
Prime is a known adulterant of most nitrite tests, which is why we don't test for nitrite in a cycle assessment, only what ammonia does. false nitrite readings cause madness like the orson welles radio broadcast in the 40s about aliens. I thought that might be helpful to know in case you are still testing for the three common params in cycling, whereas only ammonia matters in all cycles.

I agree with you that nitrite testing is sort of pointless. I have the API test so I don't waste a lot of money. Yes I know about false readings. I had a freshwater cycle years ago that gave me the nickname "mad scientist" because it was a nightmare.

glb · Mar 13, 2017

brandon429 said:
Prime is a known adulterant of most nitrite tests, which is why we don't test for nitrite in a cycle assessment, only what ammonia does. false nitrite readings cause madness like the orson welles radio broadcast in the 40s about aliens. I thought that might be helpful to know in case you are still testing for the three common params in cycling, whereas only ammonia matters in all cycles.

Knowing this, would it still be better to add Prime just knowing the nitrite test won't be accurate?

Brew12 · Mar 13, 2017

glb said:
Knowing this, would it still be better to add Prime just knowing the nitrite test won't be accurate?

I would never let nitrites impact any decision I made with a salt water tank. Aside from inaccurate testing, they just don't matter. Nitrite is extremely toxic to fresh water fish. The same receptors in fish that absorb nitrites have a higher affinity to chlorides than they do nitrites. The salt in the salt water blocks the nitrites and protects the fish.
I don't feel adding Prime would hurt, but I don't see it helping, either. It would be interesting to see what happens if you do add it. If you add it and your ammonia goes up you will know there is a problem and that chloramine or chlorine is getting in your system.

glb · Mar 13, 2017

Brew12 said:
I would never let nitrites impact any decision I made with a salt water tank. Aside from inaccurate testing, they just don't matter. Nitrite is extremely toxic to fresh water fish. The same receptors in fish that absorb nitrites have a higher affinity to chlorides than they do nitrites. The salt in the salt water blocks the nitrites and protects the fish.
I don't feel adding Prime would hurt, but I don't see it helping, either. It would be interesting to see what happens if you do add it. If you add it and your ammonia goes up you will know there is a problem and that chloramine or chlorine is getting in your system.

Why would the ammonia go up? Just curious.

glb · Mar 13, 2017

As an aside. My nano crashed over the past several months. Most of it was my fault with lack of maintenance. But, I did notice that I lost a lot of snails and crabs since last fall. I also lost a few corals and fish. Right now the nano only has one hermit in it and parameters are normal. Could chloramine have contributed to any of these problems? My guess is no but I use the same water so I thought I'd mention it.

brandon429 · Mar 13, 2017

im terrible when it comes to anything about ro or di/defer to Brew on prime use I just picked up that potential clue coming next week nitrites off the chart lol

Brew12 · Mar 13, 2017

glb said:
Why would the ammonia go up? Just curious.

Chloramine is NH2Cl which the Prime will separate. The NH2 picks up free H atoms to form NH3 (or NH4 depending on pH). The Prime then neutralizes this ammonia by binding it for up to 48 hours.

I think it is worthwhile to get a free chlorine test kit. You may have exhausted your DI filter and not realize it. You still wouldn't see conductivity go up but you may no longer be pulling the chloramine out of the water.

glb · Mar 13, 2017

Brew12 said:
Chloramine is NH2Cl which the Prime will separate. The NH2 picks up free H atoms to form NH3 (or NH4 depending on pH). The Prime then neutralizes this ammonia by binding it for up to 48 hours.

I think it is worthwhile to get a free chlorine test kit. You may have exhausted your DI filter and not realize it. You still wouldn't see conductivity go up but you may no longer be pulling the chloramine out of the water.

Do LFS do those?