Question on Difficulty Raising Calcium in 33 gallon tank..

[AndrewBrusca]

Hi Everyone,

Question regarding why I'm having difficulty raising calcium in my 33 gallon tank. Please see below for my current water parameters.

I've been dosing ESV B-Ionic 2 part solution. I only have torches, zoas, acans, scoly, toadstool leather, an anemone, two clowns, and a royal gramma.

I've been dosing Alk and Calcium every day, but calcium only barely creeps up and has now stalled out around 370. Is it possible that increasing my calcium dosing has resulted in more calcification which has stalled boosting calcium levels? I'm sure I'm doing something very noobish and obvious in error, thanks for any direction.

Should I just be increasing the amounts I'm dosing? Thanks for any feedback

Current Water Parameters:

Cal - 355
Alk - 8.0
Mag - 1365
Salinity - 1.026
PH - 8.2
Nitrate - 10-12 ppm
Phosphates - .07

My dosing has been as follows, but I still can't get my levels up.. At one point, I tried to really up my dosing quantities

1/16:
27 MLs alk
27 MLs cal

1/17:
27 MLs alk
36 MLs cal

1/18:
27 MLs alk
36 MLs cal

1/19:
27 MLs alk
36 MLs cal

1/20:
36 MLs alk
36 MLs cal

1/21:
36 MLs alk
18 MLs cal

1/22:
36 MLs alk
45 MLs cal

1/23:
45 MLs alk
45 MLs cal

1/24:
30 MLs alk
15 MLs Cal

1/25:
30 MLs alk
15 MLs cal

1/26:
35 MLs alk
15 MLs alk

1/27:
30 MLs alk
35 MLs cal

1/28:
32 MLs alk
20 MLs cal

1/29:
25 MLs alk
20 MLs cal

1/30:
25 MLs alk
20 MLs Cal

Thanks for any feedback.

 

[cdw79]

What test kit are you using? Have you checked to make sure you are doing it correctly and that it isn't expired? If so, check with your LFS and have them test for CA. You are adding quite a bit of CA supplement (comparable to what I add in my 65 and I have 2 clams...) so I would wonder if your readings are off somehow.

 

[AndrewBrusca]

I’m using a hanna checker for alkalinity and redsea test kit for calcium. I’m open to getting a hanna checker for calcium, anyone use those? I’m looking at the redsea test materials and i’m not seeing an expiration date..

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

To raise calcium by 50 ppm will require an addition of 103 ml of the calcium part in addition to the amount matching the alk part, when maintaining alk.

Dose more.

 

[AndrewBrusca]

Oh wow, thanks Randy!

I was confused bc the directions on the ESV B-Ionic bottle say not to add more than 1 ML per gallon of tank water in a 24 hour period. So I was treating about 40 MLs as my max dose amount per day

So would it make sense to dose as follows?

- Continue my 35 MLs Alkalinity daily
- Then raise Calcium to 135 MLs daily?

Then of course continue frequent testing until I get within my desired range?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Oh wow, thanks Randy!

I was confused bc the directions on the ESV B-Ionic bottle say not to add more than 1 ML per gallon of tank water in a 24 hour period. So I was treating about 40 MLs as my max dose amount per day

So would it make sense to dose as follows?

- Continue my 35 MLs Alkalinity daily
- Then raise Calcium to 135 MLs daily?

Then of course continue frequent testing until I get within my desired range?

I'd go a bit slower since there's no rush to boost calcium. Maybe a extra 50 mL of alk part per day for several days.

You can use this calculator to see the boost per mL in your system:

Reef Chemistry Calculator

 

[AndrewBrusca]

Randy, you are a life safer, thank you so much. Sounds good on 50 MLs instead of the 100 MLs daily.

So I will keep testing, but as of now I will be going with 35MLs alk and 85 MLs cal daily until further notice.

I was worried that going this much heavier on the Calcium dosing would drive my Alkalinity down aggressively which would be a bigger problem.

One last question in case you have insight. At the moment, I'm actually dosing manually with a syringe haha. Can I dose that 85 MLs all at once? Or does it make sense to break that up over 2 separate doses or even 3 separate doses to spread it out..

Thanks again

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Randy, you are a life safer, thank you so much. Sounds good on 50 MLs instead of the 100 MLs daily.

So I will keep testing, but as of now I will be going with 35MLs alk and 85 MLs cal daily until further notice.

I was worried that going this much heavier on the Calcium dosing would drive my Alkalinity down aggressively which would be a bigger problem.

One last question in case you have insight. At the moment, I'm actually dosing manually with a syringe haha. Can I dose that 85 MLs all at once? Or does it make sense to break that up over 2 separate doses or even 3 separate doses to spread it out..

Thanks again

Yes, that calcium solution does not need to be added especially slowly.

 

[AndrewBrusca]

Hey Randy, Quick follow-up. I just tested Alk/Cal again after 2 days of dosing at a rate of 40 alk / 90 cal.

I'm happy to report that my Calcium has gone up from 355 to 390! However, my alkalinity has dropped a bit from 8.0 to 7.5. Does this just mean I need to modify my dosage a bit more? Should I try 45 alk / 95 cal?

Thanks for your help

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Hey Randy, Quick follow-up. I just tested Alk/Cal again after 2 days of dosing at a rate of 40 alk / 90 cal.

I'm happy to report that my Calcium has gone up from 355 to 390! However, my alkalinity has dropped a bit from 8.0 to 7.5. Does this just mean I need to modify my dosage a bit more? Should I try 45 alk / 95 cal?

Thanks for your help

small changes may be test error, but if you want alk at 8 dKH, I’d raise the dose a bit.

 

[AndrewBrusca]

Sounds silly, but I was thinking it might be a test error. I was rushing this morning before work and didn't have time to run it twice. I still would like to see the Alkalinity up a bit higher. So I'm going to bump to 45 alk / 95 cal for next couple days and test again soon. Thanks for the input. Just wanted to make sure I hadn't misunderstood anything.

 

[AndrewBrusca]

Hey Randy, after 2 more days of dosing. I'm happy to report my calcium is now testing at 435!

However I checked my alkalinity twice and it tested at exactly 7.1 both times.

The last 2 days I dosed 45 alk / 95 cal. So now that my Calcium is in the correct range and I want to raise alkalinity above 8.

So I'm thinking to achieve this I'll dose something like 75 alk and 45 cal, then check again in a few days? Thanks again for the direction.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Hey Randy, after 2 more days of dosing. I'm happy to report my calcium is now testing at 435!

However I checked my alkalinity twice and it tested at exactly 7.1 both times.

The last 2 days I dosed 45 alk / 95 cal. So now that my Calcium is in the correct range and I want to raise alkalinity above 8.

So I'm thinking to achieve this I'll dose something like 75 alk and 45 cal, then check again in a few days? Thanks again for the direction.

sure, that sounds fine.

 

[AndrewBrusca]

Hi Randy, thanks for your patience and direction. Apologies that this isn't clicking for me quicker.

This past Friday, February 3rd, my water tested Alk was 7.1 and my Cal was 435

At that point I dosed:

2/3: 75 MLs Alk / 45 MLs Cal
2/4: 75 MLS Alk / 45 MLs Cal
2/5: 75 MLs Alk / 25 MLs Cal

I tested my water again today February 6th, and Alk/Cal dropped further from the target range again...

Today, February 6th, my water tested 7.0 Alk and 380 Cal (down roughly 50)

Should I not have reduced my Calcium dosing? I assumed because it's only a 33 gallon tank and I had gotten into my target range, that it wouldn't require such high doses ongoing. I'd really like to get my Alkalinity higher, and it feels stuck. I did a water change yesterday, so it's possible that's factoring in. I use Fritz RPM, which I understand typically mixes decent water parameters.

I was going to increase my Alkalinity dosing to 100 MLs, does that make sense? What Calcium should I dose to pair with that?

Appreciate any thoughts

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I don't believe calcium dropped 50 ppm in 3 days, unless you did a big water change with a low calcium mix. To drop calcium that much requires about a 7.4 dKH drop (or excess addition) in alk.

I'd keep watching longer to get a better long term trend on calcium, but I would dose both equally at about 75-100 ppm of each per day.

 

[AndrewBrusca]

Thanks Randy, I was caught off guard by this as well. I did roughly a 20% water chance last night and I've admittedly not tested the alk/cal on my water change water, but I don't think it could have caused that.

I will dose 100 MLs of Alk & Cal for 2 days and test again to see what it looks like. For a 33 gallon tank, I did not anticipate my tank would be using up so much of this dosing so quickly. I'll just stay with it for now.

I wonder if I'm doing something that's causing massive calcification, but I don't see why because all my other parameters are within target ranges. Thanks again, and hopefully next time I follow up, my water will be in a better spot.

 

[AndrewBrusca]

Hey Randy, Thanks again in advance for all your guidance so far.

I tested again this morning after adding 100 MLs of Alkalinity and Calcium yesterday. Somehow my Alkalinity today Feb 7th tested at 6.9. Down 0.1 from yesterday Feb 6th despite the dosing increase.

To be sure that my Hanna checker is actually acknowledging these doses, I dosed 100 MLs again this morning and tested again half an hour later and it tested 10.6 Alkalinity. So, fortunately, it did show an increase.

I plan on staying the course with this dosing and regular testing. However it seems like I must be doing something off, so I wanted to share additional details about my process in case anything is a potential flag and causing this.

1.) I’ve been doing all my testing before noon which is when the lights come on.

2.) I’ve been dosing the Alkalinity and Calcium 4 hours apart which I understood to be the correct way to do this. Is that a potential issue? I also dosed the entire 100 MLs of alkalinity by syringe over roughly a 4-minute period. Do I need to dose alk and calcium closer in timing or more spread out?

3.) I’m noticing that after dosing Alkalinity recently, a light white film or discoloring is appearing on the tank glass which I’m guessing is some calcification.

4.) Current corals in the tank are 3x torches, a Goni, a scoly, a toadstool leather coral, Green Star Polyps, and 3x Acans

5.) I’ve shared a photo below of the exact products I’m using to dose in case there’s any confusion on the brand

The low alkalinity is a bummer and I’m hoping I don’t damage any of my corals too much during this time that I’m figuring out Alk/Cal. TY

 

[AndrewBrusca]

Apologies, I wrote so much in my previous post. To update, I've been spreading my dosing out more throughout the day and the last couple days I've dosed 60 MLs alk/cal.

My tank is only about 35 gallons. This morning before the lights went on and prior to dosing, my alkalinity tested at 5.9 and Calcium 400. After that I dosed 60 MLs and tested again and my alkalinity tested 7.9. So it is showing an increase after dosing.

Does it make sense that my 33 gallon tank with LPs and softies is burning through this quantity of alkalinity? Is the answer to keep testing and increasing the dosing quantity? Last question, should I be dosing equal amounts alk/cal as I try to get my alkalinity above 8?

After I dose alkalinity, I've been noticing white shading on the tank glass which i assume is it precipitating. I haven't noticed this previously, maybe it's just my increased dosage..

 

[Aqua Man]

My tank is only about 35 gallons. This morning before the lights went on and prior to dosing, my alkalinity tested at 5.9 and Calcium 400. After that I dosed 60 MLs and tested again and my alkalinity tested 7.9. So it is showing an increase after dosing.

Wow that’s some serious dosing! If it was me, I would test with a different test kit. Salifert alk test has been very reliable for me and many others.

The Hanna Alk test reagents have a known history of giving false results as the reagent ages.

I also use ESV and only dose 5ml for ALK for 20 gallons.

 

[AndrewBrusca]

I think adding a Sailfert alk test kit into the mix is a good idea, just to cross-check for my own sanity lol.

My concern is, if the Hanna checker is correct and in the mornings my Alkalinity is sitting around 6.0-7.1. Are my corals getting damaged?

I'm assuming my coral isn't too upset since alkalinity is testing within the target range for most of the day while I'm actively dosing. These mornings are a concern