Question on use of Heterotrophic Bacteria

[ClutchCityReefer]

Hello everyone, I have another question on heterotrophic bacteria and figured I'd see if anyone on the forum had any related insights. In short, I am curious about the instruction from the sellers of the bottled bacteria to turn off the protein skimmer for a a few hours to 24 hours after dosing. It is my understanding that skimmers are very good at removing heterotrophic bacteria from the water column and this is the primary reason for the instruction.

My question is this: can I leave my skimmer on and remove the collection cup or the cap for drainage? I have a CO2 scrubber so my skimmer is a great help in boosting my pH and increasing the amount of oxygen in the water, both of which I understand can be hamstrung by the use of bottled bacteria. I figure by allowing the skimmate to flow back into my sump I can have the best of both worlds - the pH and oxygen boost from the skimmer while at the same time not removing the bacteria from the water column that I purposely put in there.

Can someone confirm if this is the case or if this is perhaps faulty logic? I figure I can also use an airstone in my sump after dosing to increase the amount of oxygen at a minimum, but I wanted to see if leaving my skimmer on and allowing it to drain into my sump would also be a feasible option.

Thanks!

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hello everyone, I have another question on heterotrophic bacteria and figured I'd see if anyone on the forum had any related insights. In short, I am curious about the instruction from the sellers of the bottled bacteria to turn off the protein skimmer for a a few hours to 24 hours after dosing. It is my understanding that skimmers are very good at removing heterotrophic bacteria from the water column and this is the primary reason for the instruction.

My question is this: can I leave my skimmer on and remove the collection cup or the cap for drainage? I have a CO2 scrubber so my skimmer is a great help in boosting my pH and increasing the amount of oxygen in the water, both of which I understand can be hamstrung by the use of bottled bacteria. I figure by allowing the skimmate to flow back into my sump I can have the best of both worlds - the pH and oxygen boost from the skimmer while at the same time not removing the bacteria from the water column that I purposely put in there.

Can someone confirm if this is the case or if this is perhaps faulty logic? I figure I can also use an airstone in my sump after dosing to increase the amount of oxygen at a minimum, but I wanted to see if leaving my skimmer on and allowing it to drain into my sump would also be a feasible option.

Thanks!

For the little time you will have skimmer off, I would not worry about ph drop. You want that bacteria to seed and establish itself. It will be simply removed by skimmer- cup or no cup

 

[brandon429]

this is a fully cycled reef based on prior posts, adding these bacteria is a complete and total waste of money and does nothing for your tank. our tanks overproduce them; they certainly don't need supplemented. all processes in the reef support repeat hourly production / cell division and all feeding approaches boon the populations such that we have detrital mass to remove (which include aggregates of millions of heterotrophic bacteria) + suspended mass via the skimming etc, focus on removing them not adding them for the win.

posts in the chemistry forum even show these dosers for profit don't accomplish basic sludge reduction either. check em out

 

[Sean Clark]

+1 for just turn it off and don't worry about pH.

 

[GARRIGA]

I'd pour and wait 24 hours. Water in my tank gets cloudy for about that time then dissipates. Not running a skimmer but I have a large biological media base.

 

[ClutchCityReefer]

Good to know, thanks @vetteguy53081 (whether you like corvettes or are a vet, either way you are cool with me).

Usually my pH ranges from around 7.9/8 in the morning to around 8.2/8.3 at night, but last time I dosed bacteria I noticed it dropped to around 7.6 (the time before it was even lower) after I left the skimmer off for 24 hours so I just figured I'd ask.

 

[ClutchCityReefer]

Thanks everyone! @GARRIGA you've had success using the bottled bacteria without a protein skimmer? Interesting I thought it was recommended that you use them in tandem so it's always good to learn there are other options!

 

[GARRIGA]

Good to know, thanks @vetteguy53081 (whether you like corvettes or are a vet, either way you are cool with me).

Usually my pH ranges from around 7.9/8 in the morning to around 8.2/8.3 at night, but last time I dosed bacteria I noticed it dropped to around 7.6 (the time before it was even lower) after I left the skimmer off for 24 hours so I just figured I'd ask.

Could increase surface agitation in main DT.

 

[brandon429]

what makes you add them? whats the need, and how are they addressing it-how do you know they're working/providing a benefit compared to not adding them routinely

(scooped from Randy, this is what he asks posters all the time who supplement cycling bac to a cycled reef)

 

[ClutchCityReefer]

good questions @brandon429. However, the heterotrophic bacteria isn't cycling bacteria (aka it isn't a denitrifier), I am dosing it to compete with nuisance organisms (in my case cyano).

I have enough science knowledge to be dangerous so if anyone more versed out there is able to correct me please do so!

 

[GARRIGA]

Thanks everyone! @GARRIGA you've had success using the bottled bacteria without a protein skimmer? Interesting I thought it was recommended that you use them in tandem so it's always good to learn there are other options!

Been dosing MB7 since I finished cycling ammonia/nitrites to get denitrification established. No issues but I do have a large amount of media for them to go attach. Never understood why skimmer was recommended to alleviate this or carbon dosing. Done the latter as well to feed the heterotrophic and no issues. Gets cloudy then it's gone. Plus I don't yet have corals as this is an experimental tank to confirm denitrification works therefore nothing is resolving the cloudiness other than time. Much of this and other hobbies tend to parrot anecdotal findings as fact and best to just test and confirm.

 

[ClutchCityReefer]

Could increase surface agitation in main DT.

do you think an airstone in the sump would have a similar effect? I'd rather put it in the sump (pump is supposed to be higher than the airstone and I'd have trouble finagling this in the display)...I'd also rather not mess with the powerheads as programming the mp40s was such a nightmare

 

[brandon429]

one last request

can you link any thread where that specific strain worked on an invasion, a link of someone who dosed it showing a wrecked tank and then a fixed one (asking so we can link to our work threads for cyano if can be located)

nearly always, marketing drives the sales and not performance. curious if there are any

all cycling bac are heterotrophs, fritz, dr Tims or biospira or Brightwell etc

they're selling you the same stuff different label. its a complete marketing ploy.

 

[ClutchCityReefer]

Been dosing MB7 since I finished cycling ammonia/nitrites to get denitrification established. No issues but I do have a large amount of media for them to go attach. Never understood why skimmer was recommended to alleviate this or carbon dosing. Done the latter as well to feed the heterotrophic and no issues. Gets cloudy then it's gone. Plus I don't yet have corals as this is an experimental tank to confirm denitrification works therefore nothing is resolving the cloudiness other than time. Much of this and other hobbies tend to parrot anecdotal findings as fact and best to just test and confirm.

My understanding is that the heterotrophic bacteria (not the denitrifiers) consume Phosphate and nitrates so you actually need a skimmer to remove the bacteria from the water column to export the nutrients.

 

[ClutchCityReefer]

one last request

can you link any thread where that specific strain worked on an invasion, a link of someone who dosed it showing a wrecked tank and then a fixed one (asking so we can link to our work threads for cyano if can be located)

nearly always, marketing drives the sales and not performance. curious if there are any

all cycling bac are heterotrophs, fritz, dr Tims or biospira or Brightwell etc

they're selling you the same stuff different label. its a complete marketing ploy.

Interesting take on it, but either you may be a bit off or my sources are. My understanding is that the nitrifiers are autotrophs and are much different than the heterotrophs I am trying to use to crowd out the cyano. As such, products such as Fritz Turbo Start and Dr. Tim's One and Only are comparable products (both autotrophic bacteria), while those two products differ significantly in form and function from Dr. Tim's Waste Away and Vibrant (both heterotrophs).

Is anyone else much brighter than me able to elucidate the issue?

 

[Sean Clark]

Interesting take on it, but either you may be a bit off or my sources are. My understanding is that the nitrifiers are autotrophs and are much different than the heterotrophs I am trying to use to crowd out the cyano. As such, products such as Fritz Turbo Start and Dr. Tim's One and Only are comparable products (both autotrophic bacteria), while those two products differ significantly in form and function from Dr. Tim's Waste Away and Vibrant (both heterotrophs).

Is anyone else much brighter than me able to elucidate the issue?

I wouldn't be surprised if this statement gets some attention because you used the "V" word and bacteria in the same sentence...

 

[ClutchCityReefer]

hopefully none of the negative kind...just trying to learn so if the "V" word is an issue let's just strike it haha

 

[brandon429]

mb7, brightwell, fritz, biospira, dr tims, tetra cycling bac from wal mart, dr Tims sludge digestors etc

all the same, different labels, a marketer's dream.


there aren't any sourceable work threads for a fix is that correct, from this site/actual uses charted?

 

[YOYOYOReefer]

Heterotrophic bacteria consume only organics, autotrophs can consume both inorganic or organic carbon sources.
Nitrification is done Autotrophs. Your red algae problem a special kind af autotroph, its a photoautrophic bacteria. so its auto to auto, not auto vs hetero . Basically in a reef environment a photoautropic bacteria will never be the limiting factor i, the cyano can survive on just light your autotrophs and heterotrophs cant.

 

[ClutchCityReefer]

Interesting, the peer-reviewed research would indicate otherwise - or they're all just full of it which it sounds like is your position

https://www.drtimsaquatics.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Hovanec-Delong-96-AEM.pdf