Questions about Cost and a 75 Gallon Tank and lighting.

[JoeFish80]

So for starters this could be my first go at a salt water tank. Have had various fresh water tanks in the past, usually ran some sort of Co2 setup and t5 lighting those projects generally went fairly well. Few bumps along the way but no less always wanted a reef tank few clowns a tang or two and some little critters to skitter about the floor. Anyways, so I'm completely content doing weekly water changes and keeping up with things if it can save me a bit of cash off the start.

Then there's well loads of information, I've started shifting through it all. Some say you gotta have a skimmer some don't. But anyways I suppose my question would be what would be the lower end I could get away with spending that would actually let some coral grow and end up being well a good looking if not a bit simplistic setup for a salt water reef tank?

I figure lighting is going to be the well larger of the buys, So I suppose my question there is would a single say Current USA Orbit be enough? Or like Finnex's Marine +?

Filters, figure there's a ton of various options here as well. But could I get away with a canister filter for a 75? Do I actually need one designed for saltwater? Seems for some reason if it says its setup for saltwater the price bumps up. But I'm not entirely sure if that's just marketing or if there's some reason behind it all. Honestly can't say I've researched enough here. Would it be beneficial if down the road I perhaps plan to add a second tank to setup a sump system. Any thoughts here would be helpful I figure I know the least about the filter setup than anything.

Then Rock, mean I'd like to toss a mandarin in the tank, and I know that they require quite a bit of it if I'm not mistaken. But any theory on how much live rock I might be looking at there?


Far as coral goes, I was thinking some Green Star Polyps, Clove Polyps, and Pulsing Xenia, Blastomussa, and some Zoas and though not a coral some rock flower anemones to top it off. Now I know that the Clove's and the Xenia might try to be invasive, thought was to sorta give them their own little islands and remove the strays if they decided to pop up elsewhere. The Green Stars might also be a bit on the quick spreading side I think? But no less, can't be worse than my tall grass trying to invade the short grass in the other tank. Well maybe it could be, but I'd imagine I could just well chop them off and move I'd believe?

Not too worried about the sand I suppose, I don't see it as being much of a bump in the budget really. Figure the others all have it beat far as price goes. and I don't think i'd need nearly as much sand as I would substrate for my planted tank so I'd be buying well less of it than usual.


Anyways if anyone has any thoughts far as a perhaps simple setup for a 75 goes that would function for what I'm kind of going for here I'd really appreciate it.

 

[Ron Reefman]

Lots of questions, good for you. That's the best way to start out in this hobby!

BTW, welcome to R2R.

OK, lighting: t5 fluorescent fixtures aren't too expensive and they can do a fine job. In led fixtures you can look at Mars Aqua or Viparspectra or a few other of the better brands of Black Box led fixtures. They all make good light these days, the price differences are due to features for you to play with and quality construction.

A HOB (Hang On Back) filter system can work OK. A sump can work better. A sump with a refugium can work even better yet. The sump doesn't have to be one of those expensive acrylic jobs. PetCo sells a 40g tank for $40 during sales and it can be made to work perfectly. Room for a skimmer and a filter sock. BTW, you don't NEED a skimmer, but they can be very helpful in keeping the water quality up.

DO NOT DO A MANDARIN!!! They almost all eat just live copepods and only a few bigger and mature tanks can breed enough to keep them alive.

A 75g tank could have anywhere from 50 to 100 pounds of rock. Buy it dry and it's cheaper. It takes time to become alive, but you have to take your time in this hobby. Nothing good happens quickly in a saltwater aquarium!

Your coral choices are pretty spot on and you even understand they can be fast growers... even invasive. But they still get you started and make the tank look lived in! The Blastomussa and RFA should be a bit further downstream. Why spend big money on fancy corals and anemones until your tank is ready. On average a tank takes a 2 to 4 weeks to go through the nitrogen cycle, another 2 or 3 months to get past the 'ugly' stage where algae and bacteria blooms can be issues. Tanks are generally considered 'mature' at about a year. If done well it can take a bit less time.

Where will you get your water from?
If you have an RO/DI system, you'll need to buy salt mix and a container to mix it in and a pump to keep it stirred up for a few hours or a day while it stabilizes. You'll be doing 5 to 20 gallon water changes depending on how frequently you want to do them. Mixing 20g of new saltwater is easy if you buy a new Brute trash can with a lid and the roller platform so you can move it around easy.

You might look on CraigsList or for a local aquarium club and find somebody getting out of the hobby and selling off equipment. I outfitted 75% of a 180g display tank and a 180g sump/refugium system with used hardware. It took me a year to acquire everything I wanted, but I probably saved more than 50% of the cost if I had gone all new. Even the 2 tanks were used.

Good luck and keep asking questions.

 

[ducati1212]

I just setup a 75 and this was some of my pricing. I did try to save some money and only got 1 MP40 and I stuck a Hydor 2400 on the other side. I originally was going to start with 1 light knowing in a few months I had to add one but last second just added both. I also ended up adding a Apex which is just so much better than I thought. Basically everything I tried to save money on I have already added to the tank. I have not seen a canister on a salt tank but I think its done on occasion. Your filter is live rock, sand and skimmer along with some mechanical like a filter sock.

I would say the biggest things that add the most value are light and flow. without that things are a struggle. After that is enough rock or something like marine pure blocks in your sump for bacteria to live.

and im no expert im on my third salt water tank this is my first "Real" tank. its a 75 Gal red sea reefer been running about 6 weeks.

---------

Skimmer Eshopps S200 $499
Return Pump - Sicce 5.0 $215
Heater 2 x 300w titanium $140
Pumps 2 x MP40 $740 (start with 1 MP 40)
Live Sand - AragAlive Spec Grade Reef Sand 80 lbs $140
Live Rock - Cultured Live rock 80 lbs $560
Lights - hydra 26 are 366.50 each prob need x 2 for start

 

[Eagle_Steve]

Welcome and we are glad to have ya!!!!

and pretty much what @Ron Reefman has stated for the other stuff lol.

 

[Mr Fishface]

I had a 75 gallon for the longest time so these are really good questions you are asking. Ron did a GREAT job of answering them but I'll also throw in my two pennies.

I used current marine LED lights on my tank. They DO WORK for the lower light corals like soft and some lps. I really liked the ramp on and ramp off feature that the mars aqua just did not have. I added T5 lights to my marine orbit and LOVED it. I got all the features I wanted - a slow gradual ramp up and down with extra, beautiful, T5 light in the middle of the day. Once I added T5 I was able to grow coral better too. Also the orbit marines left some dark spots in my 75 gallon. I did run two, 24" orbits though instead of a single 48". My advice is look in your local area for whatever used lights are available first and go from there.

I used a HOB skimmer and it worked well. It was a seaclone which everyone gives a really bad rep for. I got it for free because it had a broken pump so I couldn't argue. Now is it the best skimmer? Not by a long shot. But it did produce bubbles which removed crap from the tank. The biggest issue I had from not running a skimmer is I noticed during water changes my water would turn yellow in the bucket. In the tank it looked ok, but obviously I had excessive organics in my water without a skimmer. I would look into a HOB overflow box. I used an eshopps pf-800 and it works like a charm. This allowed me to run a sump and get a skimmer I liked better. Having said that, no, neither of those things are really needed. They are just nice to have and help make the tank look better. I would just keep an eye open for used skimmers since you won't be needing one for a little while anyways.

Don't get a mandarin to start with. My experience has been they show no interest in ANYTHING other than pods. I would give your tank time to mature a bit more, if you can add a sump you'll be even better as it gives them a place to breed.

Sand really isn't a bump at all. Don't be afraid to order dry sand from a place like Petco online. I find online has better prices, usually beating amazon even.

You have great choices for corals to start with. All would do well for a beginner. If you somehow melt gsp like I did when I first started, know that you are not alone

Like Ron said, check your local area for any used equipment. Almost all of my stuff is used but that is how I get to afford to have a reef tank on a teaching salary. It's doable, just be diligent and check craigslist once a day or something. If you just keep a tab open with something like "aquarium" in the search bar, just hit refresh and you're done in 5 seconds. Easy peasy.

 

[Subsea]

I have tanks 10 years mature with HOB & canister only. I disagree with the volume of rock suggested. Pound for pound, substrate has much more surface area for bacteria & micro inverts which will fish. I use diver collected live rock from Gulf of Mexico to bring in biodiversity. You only need one good live rock.

Premium Decorative Live Rock

Live Rock

www.gulfliverock.com

Live Rock - Tampa Bay Saltwater Aquacultured Live Rock - The Package Organisms

Enjoy the addiction.

 

[LiveWire]

Welcome to the REEF!!

 

[Jared's Little Reef]

Welcome to R2R,
For the skimmer question if you wanted to avoid having a skimmer you could go the route of chaeto algae in a sump. I would just always recommend a skimmer for anything bigger than 40 gallons doing water changes every single week to battle nutrient levels creeping up will be a nightmare.
Two biggest recommendations I can give.
1. Buy the best light you can afford for the tank
2. Buy the best "oversized" skimmer you can afford.
Buying overrated versions of both of these will be much better in the long run especially if you upgrade eventually to a bigger tank.
Most skimmers will need a sump unless you go with a Hang on the Back (HOB) Aquamax makes a good HOB skimmer but I would say it is too small for your tank.
For the skimmer you could hold off on buying it and maintain water changes until you can afford a really good one.
Good Skimmers: Reef Octopus, eshop, somatic, and skimz
Really high end ones: Vertex & Nyos

 

[vector824]

I also have a 75g! I run a 48" Current USA Orbit and it worked great for my softies. Then added a dual bulb t5 I got off Amazon with ATI Coral Blue bulbs. Works well and I can even grow easy SPS with it.

I would try and get the tank drilled and go full sump. It adds extra cost but the flexibility and options are worth it for skimmers, filter media, added water volume, and a cleaner look in the display.

You can isolate invasive corals on a rock island to manage them.

You're on the right track! Just be patient and keep researching!

 

[jk_s124]

The noopsyche k7 2 pro lights seem to be more affiradable and have been getting good reviews.

 

[JoeFish80]

I was going to quote here, but well lot to reply to and if I quoted everything this post would just end up being huge. Thanks for all the replies so far.

Back to Lighting since it seems to be the more expensive of the items:

So back to lighting end of the day I'm patient with this project so if I push it back a month to save up for better lighting that's not really a huge deal. I already have quite a bit to do before I even get that far honestly. I guess what confuses me is so Kessil lights I keep reading about their ""Shimmer"" which I don't know almost comes off as another gimmick to me? But maybe i'm wrong here? But I'd almost think all LED's would kind of on some level look pretty close to the same in the end? I don't know can't say I've honestly wandered about looking at LED's to see the difference between each one.

So the amount of light and a 75. The Numbers I suppose, so the question here is how many lights of each would I actually need to create a nice happy reef. I'm pretty sure Kessil is simply out of the running the idea of spending 376 dollars on a single light with the controller just seems a bit well crazy to me. But I suppose if its a case of needing multiples of other lights to equal one of the Kessil's perhaps its back in the running.

So the US Current Orbit Runs about 230 dollars, So if a Pair would be needed for a 75 gallon tank we're looking at 460 in lighting there.

Prime HD runs about 200 even would I need one or two there?

Same question for the MarsAqua 300 and the Viparspectra 300, would one be efficient?


Curve ball: Logistics question, So Lighting here's something I've never quite understood I suppose. So saltwater LED's have this tendency to cost far more than their freshwater counter parts. Why is that, mean ideally aren't both lights simply trying to mimic the sun? If so, wouldn't both do well under the same kind of lighting? Mean I get that Saltwater lighting has a higher Kelvin Rating which I presume drives the price up because companies can in the end since Saltwater tanks seem more prestigious than freshwater tanks or something? I don't know. Just always seemed odd that the price difference was so high.

End of the day my goal would be the most cost effective option. Be it a pair of this or a single of that which would give the best results.


Filtration System:

I don't think I've ever had a tank with just a hang on back filter to be honest I've always used canister filters of some sort. Which I suppose kind of mimics a sump system? I might actually have a 50 gallon tank laying in a garage somewhere that I'm sure I could modify to act as a filter. Nothing else I think I can find a 40-50 gallon tank around here for about 40-50 bucks if not less really without a stand so that's not a huge deal. Now getting the tank outfitted for a sump could be a bit of work. Not entirely sure how I feel about cutting holes in the aquarium, but I'm sure with proper research I could pull that off.

So the Skimmer Dun dun dun, yeah I'm totally lost on this one. Currently watching video's but still clueless I gather that it makes bubbles bubbles push the baddies up, then you clean the baddies out and they don't add to waste that is degrading in your water and trying to cause problems. So whats your thoughts on best bang for your buck here? Far as personal opinions go? Also is there some downfall here far as buying used go or is a used skimmer a pretty safe bet?



The Residents of the Aquarium:

Lets start with the Mandarin, I know they only eat copepods and amphipods (I think), I was assuming these days you could buy them in a bag much like you would say brine shrimp. Maybe I'm wrong there? But I assumed that keeping them fed would be possible with a bit of work. But I already expected him to be the last buy down the road in theory.

Honestly I'm a bit torn to be honest, Part of me wants to setup a tank purely for anemones and just have some happy clowns moving around and some little critters on the floor. I gather that a lot of anemones can crawl over and kill your coral. That'd probably annoy me and I'd end up voting the anemone off the island. So my thought was to kind of do one or the other generally speaking. Is that common? or are there Anemones that better co-exist with coral? Guess I haven't quite researched them enough but I'll get there I'm sure. I have this feeling whats eventually going to happen I'll end up with a pair of tanks one dedicated to each. Actually I've already started to plan for that and am going to set up the well wall stand to house at least a pair of tanks if not perhaps three. But I'll start with the center tank then do the other tanks down the road maybe one a year or something.

To Rock though, they're residents on some level, but live rock vs dead rock I suppose. From what I'm gathering in my research here is that dead rock can be brought back to life over time. Is there a way to say speed that process up, by say adding copepods and amphipods into the tank or whatever else lives happily in the live rock. Or is it as simple as adding a good live rock to the aquarium and just giving it a bit of time?

I'll probably get into stocking later down the road when I actually get closer to that step I think and actually make a decision on if i want to go coral or anemones.

Random idea I had about Green Star Polyps, So I know they're well quick growing little buggers, Could you setup say a Rock wall background and just let them cover the entire back wall? Or possibly even do an almost carpet kind of look with them where you laid flatter rocks down at the base instead of sand in a section and just let the little buggers go to town and create a happy little green society that'd give an almost grass like appearance?

Final Thoughts

So first thanks everyone for useful info and greetings. It is very appreciated. Most forums i've posted on there ends up being a lot of views and no one seems to have an opinion. I find that very odd for the internet where I previously believed that everyone had an opinion. But no less Thanks a bundle for the quick replies. Gives a nice warm welcome sort of feeling. Sorry though for writing well small books, don't mean to write too much it just kind of happens when babbling I suppose. I think though my conclusion is if you're going to do something best to do it right. So I'd rather not skimp too much on everything and have something that will last rather than skimp now and then later decide well I really should have picked this up instead. Cause in the end I'd just end up wasting money which I'm really trying not to do. Might mean that the aquarium is pushed back a little further but thats ok in the end. I'd rather have a tank thats happy from the start then one thats kind of meh for a few months then over time becomes happier. Mean I kind of know its going to be a little meh from the start due to the cycle and well coral growing and such but no less. Thanks again for reading and any replies. I'ma cut myself off here before I just keep rambling.

 

[JoeFish80]

Further Research on Lighting: Italics/underline are ones I couldn't find enough information on

Us Current Orbit. So these run about 230 dollars. My best estimate is that I would need at least two possibly even a third? to have an optimal amount of light for the coral to flourish. Correct me if i'm wrong here which would put this setup to around 460+ Tax.

Prime HD+ From what I gather these have a coverage area of 24x24 Thus again two would be needed. So at about 210 dollars each I'd be looking at 420 dollars.

MarsAqua 165: Now I figure in this case I'd probably need two, but if two is enough we'd be down to about 200 dollars. Which seems like a decent deal all things considered thus far.

Mars Aqua 300. Now I wasn't able to find any coverage area information on this one, So my question would be is one enough? Or As before will I need a second? These run about 200 dollars.

Viaparspectra 165: Basically the same as the MarsAqua but it seems to have a timer and costs about 120 (Not entirely sure the mars doesn't have a timer), so a pair of these would run about 240. This also seems a possibility if in fact two would be enough. Found the Coverage on these, saying a core coverage 24x24, with a Max Coverage of 30x24 So these might be in the lead.

Viparspectra 300 Sort of the same thing here Wasn't able to find coverage area information. Is one enough do I need two? These seem to run about 200 dollars. 32x24 Coverage core with a 34x24 max range according to their website.

Kessil 160w, 239 dollars, 24 inch coverage area, I would need two and a controller I believe... Somewhere around 666 dollars according to google. Maybe Kessil is the devil?


((Edited for new information found on the Viparspectra))

 

[Ron Reefman]

Joe, other than good light for the tank... meaning proper spectrum and PAR, what are the other features are you looking for? And what is the budget?

After good light and a reasonably well built fixture, all the rest is about features that humans can play with like sunrise/sunset, 6 channels of color control rather than 2, does it have legs, a hanging kit or both, how good looking is it.

If you just want an inexpensive light that works, you have the answers Mars Aqua or Viparspectra... maybe look at a couple of other black box fixtures. Two of the small units or one of the 300's will both work. The 300's might leave the extreme end a bit darker than having 2 of the smaller fixtures. And remember that if you go for the 2 smaller units, the gap between them should be about double what the gap is from the end of the tank to the fixture. That is:
end of tank-4" gap-16" fixture-8" gap-16" fixture-4" gap-end of tank
That will give you the most even spread of light. You might increase the end gaps by an inch and shrink the center gap by 2 inches, but that's pretty much the same, just making sure you have good light in the middle of the tank.

 

[WiscoFishNut]

Welcome to the site! I recently setup my first sw tank, 75g like yours and I went with a canister filter. I wish I had opted to go with a drilled tank and sump for sure. The flexibility others have mentioned is a legit thing. I'm already building a second setup with a sump and really looking forward to having a skimmer to help the water quality as well as the refugium to grow chaeto and pods. It's definitely worth considering going the drilled + sump route imo

 

[JoeFish80]

Lighting:

Honestly, spectrum and par are the two most important things. Mean I wouldn't mind having a timer that'd be handy and I do want a moon light (which I assume is just a really dim blue light which could be programmed with the Viaparspectra). In my freshwater tanks it was the only time I ever got to see my zebra pleco come out. That little bugger would not come out during the day maybe the light was too bright for him i don't know but he just wouldn't. And I figure since I want an arsenal of little creepy crawlers like snails and little shrimp or crabs or whatever I thought having a moon light would be kinda cool to see them skittering about.

Far as budget actually goes, Mean I'm not against saving up for a few extra months or something if the light is actually worth the investment. Mean I figure there's a reason that Kessil is so expensive. I assume it just looks the best and performs the best. Don't think I need the best though, I just want the tank to look good and most importantly be healthy, happy and live long and prosper.

But so far the Viaparspectra 165 Seems to me like the better of the options in my case. I could be wrong here, maybe there's a better option I haven't seen or maybe its actually worth spending the extra 300 dollars or so on a more expensive setup? Or maybe in the end I don't really have a need for much more than that depending on what corals can flourish with a pair of those lights.

Though about the Viaparspectra, is it going to limit coral selection, or will most things grow under a pair of those generally speaking.



About Filtration:

I have basically decided that I'm going to go the sump route, now if I go with some sort of external overflow or a drilled system I'm not 100 percent sure yet. Its going to be another Cost vs Effectiveness situation and I've just not quite started on that research yet, sort of working from the top down I suppose. But if its less expensive to buy a overhang box compared to finding someone to drill the tank or buying the drill bit to do it myself. I'll go with the overhang, if its less expensive to just have it drilled I'll probably just have it drilled. Either way goals to have a sump and some sort of protein skimmer down there.


Back to the Corals for a moment.

So I've researched a bit more far as coral goes, and it seems like some of my list kind of enjoys different levels of movement in the water itself. Where the GSP likes really high flow, and the Zoanthids (sp) prefer a lower flow if I'm not mistaken? So I suppose I should probably figure out which flow I want to go with something more higher flow or lower I believe less I'm mistaken here. Suppose after further thoughts, Location of where you put the coral would also depend on how much flow there is I think right? But no less I suppose Coral choice will somewhat at least depend on how much flow you're putting into the tank I believe?

Thanks again for the welcomes and replies its highly appreciated.

(edited for thought about corals)

 

[Matthew Dorsey]

If your starting your first saltwater tank the biggest decision for me was choosing the tank size. smaller tanks are nice and all but that is actually the cheapest part of starting saltwater. I found it easier to have a larger tank like a 110 or 150 because they have more stability because of the larger volume of water. Making it easier to maintain. Plus you mentioned tangs which often need lots of room to swim. I bought small 2 to 3 inch tangs and when they grow up and become crowded in the tank sell them to your local pet store and trade it for new fish.

 

[Sailingeric]

I had the Current Marine Orbit light for a while. It is good for Fowlr or if you want too keep some softies. I got a Maxspect Razor X 200 w light and it does a great job without breaking the bank too bad. I actually run mine about 50% power and the timing of the lights and color are all adjustable through their app.

 

[JoeFish80]

@Matthew Dorsey Yeah I'd kind of like to go larger than the 75, I just happen to have a 75 gallon tank laying around that was once the cichlid tank. Would have to do a little modification, get rid of the rock background things of that nature but its just styrofoam so I should be able to knock it off without much hassle or any damage to that tank. Needs redone either way even if I decide to just set it up as another freshwater tank and pick up a larger saltwater tank. Really its going to depend on if I find a good deal or not. Hope is to go up to about a 120, Currently I picked up a nano tank just cause it was a pretty decent deal. 20 Gallon Tank Post.

Think for lighting I'ma stick to my idea i think it'll do what I want and has general lighting options that I'd like, the 20 gallon's lights don't really have options its an on or off situation but I think thats ok it'll do. Mean in the days of t5's and such I figure it was just a case of on and off and that worked so the LED's should work just the same.