Raggedy Hippo - HLLE or fin rot or ... ?

Discussion in 'Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis' started by don_chuwish, Dec 31, 2017.

  1. don_chuwish

    don_chuwish Valuable Member R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    This poor hippo is one tough bugger. First introduced into my 120G back in mid 2016 it started showing what I thought was HLLE after a few months. Fins started looking bad too. Thinking it was HLLE I just tried to improve nutrition, etc. Then when I had to break everything down for rebuild it broke out in Ich while in the holding tank. So everybody in that tank got moved to HT, then to a bigger HT:
    https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/perfect-storm-situation-and-some-questions.293622/

    While getting treated for Ich with Cu (and Kanaplex & Prazi for extra insurance) I noticed at the time that the raggedy fins improved quite a bit, as did the patchy facial scales.

    But after returning to the rebuilt 120G the raggedy look slowly returned. Even the flesh around the gills seems a little receded. Never any impact on appetite or activity level and I've seen significant growth.

    So last week I had set up a QT for some new fish, not treating for anything yet. And yesterday I was editing some coral to take to the LFS. When I picked up my large hammer colony she was in her usual sleeping/hiding spot wedged into the branches. Perfect opportunity to catch her and move to QT.

    Now I have her in the QT and yesterday added a dose of Kanaplex for starters.

    Photos proved impossible but I think this video shows the issues well. Please offer opinions on what it actually is and what might help!

     

  2. Maritimer

    Maritimer Moderator Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter Reef Squad Leader CTARS Member R2R Excellence Award Build Thread Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    Doesn't look like fin-rot, and _shouldn't_ be flukes ... but lately, some flukes have surfaced which are resistant to Praziquantel. You might want to try a freshwater dip, to see if anything drops off.

    Are you using activated carbon in your filtration system? It's been implicated in some cases.

    My other thought would be that some kind of worm, crab, shrimp or other predator is nibbling on her fins while she sleeps.

    ~Bruce
     
  3. Daniel Waters

    Daniel Waters Active Member ETRC Member

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    Looks like HLLE to me. But I am hardly an expert. I will second that I had tangs develop HLLE due to larger / poor grade carbon, so I would look to that if it pertains to you.
     
  4. don_chuwish

    don_chuwish Valuable Member R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    Thanks for the quick input! I had heard of the carbon theory, I previously used BRS's ROX 0.8, well flushed through their dual canister reactors, but haven't used it in a long time now. No change from stopping that.
    Just knowing my tank I doubt it's any night time nibblers but certainly can't rule it out.
    I've actually wondered if sleeping in the hammer branches may be part of it - her face is up near the heads and there are lots of little polyps all down the branches, but I can't imagine she'd stay there if getting stung.
     
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  5. don_chuwish

    don_chuwish Valuable Member R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    On 2nd dose of Kanaplex in the HT now. No obvious change yet but I don't expect anything to happen quickly.
     
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  6. 4FordFamily

    4FordFamily Tang, Angel, & Wrasse Addict Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter Reef Squad Leader R2R Excellence Award Build Thread Contributor Article Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    Can you post photos? I cannot get the video to work with my iPhone for some reason! It loads but won’t play
     
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  7. SeahorseKeeper

    SeahorseKeeper Where's the mysis? Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Article Contributor NJRC Member

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    I’m leaning more towards HLLE. I’m wondering what the exact differences are between the DT and QT?? I’m wondering if there may be something that the tang just can’t handle in the DT.
     
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  8. don_chuwish

    don_chuwish Valuable Member R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    I will try to get some photos - very difficult as somehow the lighting makes the Hippo horribly overexposed in every photo I've tried to take.

    Really the DT should be a much better environment - more space, better water quality. Aside from medications I can't think of anything better in QT than DT. She's best buddies with the little clown harem I have going, no aggression with any other fish at all.

    Did another 5G water change today, slowly bringing up the QT from 1.015sg that the LFS fish were in when I brought them home. So one added scoop of Kanaplex too.
     
  9. don_chuwish

    don_chuwish Valuable Member R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    Still doing well in the QT. I think I'm seeing some improvement in the scales around the face.
    Finished Kanaplex and then started Furan-2 yesterday. Odd for a tang, but she'd never liked eating nori from a clip. Or any large chunks floating around either. But I put some in on a clip yesterday and the Ravenous Rabbit fish was tearing into it, so she learned that it's actually a good thing. I'm going to start leaving some in there every day for them to graze on.
     
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  10. justinm

    justinm Active Member

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    That is definitely HLLE. Up the algae and add some vitachem or selcon to its food and she should improve:)
     
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  11. don_chuwish

    don_chuwish Valuable Member R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    Thanks! Getting so much nori is a new thing for sure, hoping that helps. Also feeding Seachem MarinePlus, PE mysis, frozen mysis, Rod's Food... I have a variety around.
     
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  12. justinm

    justinm Active Member

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    Variety is definitely good, but more algae for tangs:)
     
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  13. don_chuwish

    don_chuwish Valuable Member R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    Already showing signs of improvement and I'm thinking it's more about diet than meds. Now that it knows how to graze at the nori clip there has been a LOT of eating going on. Lots of pooping too. I did start some API General Cure today but it'll probably be the last meds I use. After today's larger water change the salinity is getting closer to reef tank ready. I'm thinking that my QT fish will be ready to go in the DT before the Hippo is, which is fine. I may leave the clown in as company and switch them to the 55g QT at that point. Might be a long time before the recovery is significant enough to go back to the DT.
     
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  14. Gmj4409

    Gmj4409 Active Member R2R Supporter

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    Great news! I had little less damage on a Hippo and he improved dramatically in about 30 days. Same approach - own QT, clean water and good food. I was able to put him in DT shortly after where I continued to feed upgraded food. Please keep us posted on his improvement moving forward - pics or video would be great.
     
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  15. don_chuwish

    don_chuwish Valuable Member R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    I've taken some video today and snagged some frames for reference, but honestly it doesn't show the improvement I "think" I see. I'll keep taking weekly videos for comparison. Here's where we started Dec 31st:

    Hippo_2017-12-31a.jpg Hippo_2017-12-31b.jpg
     
  16. 4FordFamily

    4FordFamily Tang, Angel, & Wrasse Addict Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter Reef Squad Leader R2R Excellence Award Build Thread Contributor Article Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    Honestly, that fish will probably never look 100% but the fins should hopefully mostly come back and the face will slowly fill in a bit more.

    Keep up the good work! :)
     
  17. don_chuwish

    don_chuwish Valuable Member R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    Thanks! Hoping for the best.
    I have Sea Veggies (Mixed) flakes and Selcon on the way this week too.
     
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  18. 4FordFamily

    4FordFamily Tang, Angel, & Wrasse Addict Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter Reef Squad Leader R2R Excellence Award Build Thread Contributor Article Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    I’ve been surprised before! :)
     
  19. don_chuwish

    don_chuwish Valuable Member R2R Supporter Build Thread Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    OMG I've never seen fish poop this impressively before. Both the Rabbit and Hippo - explosive clouds of flakes. Of course right AFTER I did the water change. I might put on my other Tidal 55 just to cope.
    Everyone doing fine in QT - might have even seen the little clown pass a long white string (General Cure in the water since Saturday).
     
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  20. domination2580

    domination2580 Reef-a-nator R2R Supporter

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    Long white stringy hints towards internal worms. I think general cure is supposed to take care of it
     
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