Ready to throw in the towel from Dinos

merereef

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Great news. That @brandon429 guy knows a thing or two.
I suspect they can't take hold of anything due to the current. But they are still there and thus not beaten, at least not yet. Keeping them in the water column will make UV more effective though. If this strategy were maintained long enough, I'm thinking a month, then I could them not coming back if nutrients were maintained when current was dropped back down and sand was reintroduced.
Yep, this is what im thinking... il run it like this for a while then just to be safe
-remove sand so no place for dinos to grab on to...
-blow rocks after lights out
- increase in tank flow
- increase sump turnover
- run uv

i will see today how it looks after during peak light hours
 
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merereef

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Dinos humble us more than any invader going! I enjoy seeing surgical work against them, added to the ongoing work people do with param tuning and competitor tuning. To chart patterns...the more data avail the better

Most important factor is an aquarist willing to keep mvng forward and we enjoy using sandbed access biology so that no tanks are lost when attempting to make dinos comply. It doesn't always work for sure but it's nice to know if we want to try removing their hiding place, it's handy that we have a reference work of people just moving homes to see access data on avoiding recycles. Sand can be removed, hopefully the battle won and then bleach or peroxide sterilized and added back. Run the bare bottom system without any UV or dosing or anti Dino actions in place a while, be sure they're suppressed then I think adding sand w be ok

If not, rip it again lol until a better way is found

Doing sandbed work always reveals hidden secrets about microbiology, cycling, and how active surface area works

You just removed what would seem like half your surface area. If done in 1998, you'd be drummed out of town for the impending crash by not giving your rocks months of partial sand removal in order to take on more bac

It doesn't work that way at all, we see in sand removal pattern work. The rocks are so much convoluted and twisted and super coiled surface area, whatever you do to the bed doesn't matter and how fast you do it doesn't matter. That you are thorough is what matters

Live rock is so powerful, I have collected moves where we halved their rock (from rock wall to reef bommie) + ripped out sand, and same fish bioloading does fine in the new place.
I have to say reading threads and reading page after page and trying every technique under the sun and still nothing working agains the Amphidium dinos i just knew i had to take the surgical approach... remove the sand ... then manually get them suspended so the uv has chance to kill it...
 
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merereef

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Great to hear!
if the microbacter7 is not helping after a while give this a shot... seriously i have tried peroxide,dino x, lights out increased nutrients stirred sandbed etc etc NOTHING has worked... I literally seen the reduction in dinos in 24-48, hours quicker than any other method i have used
 
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CMO

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How's your pod activity? I'm somewhat convinced my biodiversity attack worked (at least partially). I added tons of copepods, amphipods and fed phyto during my successful attack on them.
 
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Txplicit

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Hypothetical question. If dinos generally are from a low nutrient, clean water parameters, and they bloom due to lack of competitors, would adding nutrients and dosing a bacteria kick starter along with pods/macro/phyto be too late to out compete the dinos?
 

merereef

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Hypothetical question. If dinos generally are from a low nutrient, clean water parameters, and they bloom due to lack of competitors, would adding nutrients and dosing a bacteria kick starter along with pods/macro/phyto be too late to out compete the dinos?
this is a very good idea and this is something a lot of people already recommend... its just not been working for some of us or its just taking far too long to notice anything
 

Txplicit

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this is a very good idea and this is something a lot of people already recommend... its just not been working for some of us or its just taking far too long to notice anything
I'm starting to see that a set single method isn't very imposing on dinos. Maybe try a hybrid method of this and sand bed/removal, and going dark for a few days?

I just hate to see anyone throw in the towel and break a tank down. All that hard work, money, and then the possibility that some livestock won't survive.....
 

brandon429

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agreed, removing sand clears real estate so you can continue the fight, a tool in the toolbox. we get to watch how the battle plays out over time using combo methods
 

CMO

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I'm starting to see that a set single method isn't very imposing on dinos. Maybe try a hybrid method of this and sand bed/removal, and going dark for a few days?

I just hate to see anyone throw in the towel and break a tank down. All that hard work, money, and then the possibility that some livestock won't survive.....
I'd agree with that. I think its the combo attack that seems to work if you can keep it up for long enough. My actions (that I can remember) which ultimately beat them were as follows:

- Raised PO4 to .20ppm and held it there with dosing
- Raised NO3 to about 10ppm and held it there with dosing
- Removed top layer of sand bed with dino patches daily - this ended up removing about half my sand by the time I beat them (and I have subsequently added it back without issue)
- Added microbacter 7 every few days
- Added tons of copepods of all varieties and amphipods
- Fed live phyto
- Added 50 watts of UV to the systems for anything that made it to the water column
 

Txplicit

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I am currently going through battling dinos right now. Looking at the onset early stages. I turned off my flow, manually removed, doubled my feeding to raise nutrients, running my skimmer wet, and went dark for a day. It looks like it took down 50% of it. Kind of hard to see, but this was last night in my bc29 after most of it was picked off...

I reached out to contact algaebarn for 5280 pods/ocean magik, fritz turbo start 900, and coralline algae. Thinking if I have them weakened and boost their competitors, with a little luck i can keep them down for the count. Keep you posted.

20191028_215028.jpg
 

HomeSlizzice

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I've fought Dino's before about a year or 2 ago and won. I also had them pop up recently in a newer tank.

"A year or 2 ago I had a bad case of Dinoflagellates (Prorocentrum). So this is what I did. https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/dinoflagellates-–-are-you-tired-of-battling-altogether.293318/post-4646352

Alright so here is a the update on battle with Dinoflagellates (Prorocentrum). Like I mentioned about a week ago. I did the following protocol after about a 7-10 days of running my Ozone generator (AquaMaxx Tech-O3 UPS300 Ozonizer - 30 mg/hr) with only minimal results on the dinos. I decided to do the following as an all out attack on the dinos. I gleaned my approach from Leonard Ho ( https://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog/how-i-beat-dinoflagellates-and-thelessons-i-learned ) and Sonny Harajly( http://reefsite.com/2015/01/dinoflagellates-and-the-treament-of/ ).


1. 3 day blackout. I didn't cover my tank though, just no lights. (Skimmer, Ozone, and GAC all running during the black out)

2. dosed DIY Zeo Coral Snow daily (Calcium Carbonate https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/diy-kz-coral-snow-with-97 purity.211722/ ) This is a flocculent to help bind and remove the free floating Dino’s.

3. Turkey bast the rocks and sand to get as many dinos free floating as possible so they get bound to the Calcium Carbonate slurry. Turkey Baster combined with the blackout was key to getting the dinos free floating so they could bind to the "Coral Snow".

4. Ran my ozone. (1 hour on / one hour off; 30mg/hr is my unit and my tank is around 75 gallons total volume) Leonard Ho and Sonny in their articles both recommended Hydrogen Peroxide since neither ran Ozone, but the goal is they are doing a similar job.

5. After the 3 day blackout, most of the dinoflagellates appeared to
gone. I did a 15 gallon water change at the end of the 3 day blackout
while vacuum siphoning as much of the sand bed as possible (not removing
the sand, also there was a ton reddish-brown residue (dinos) at the
bottom of my water container), and added some Dr Tim's Eco Balance after
the water change.

6. Run GAC the entire time because some dinos are toxic and can/will smell (my prorocentrum did)

7. After the 3 day black out, I ran my lights (AI Hydra 26HD's) with only blues and violets at 50% for 4 hours total. So 1 hour ramp up, 2 hour peak, and 1 hour ramp down. Again the peak was only 50% and only blues and violets. I have then increased my peak photo period by 30 minutes to an hour each day, but am keeping the same intensity and still only running blues and violets.

8. After about 5 days or so (Friday) I did another 15 gallon water change while primarily vacuum siphoning of my sandbed again. At this point, there was not really any reddish brown color (dinos) in my waste water, just the more common lighter brown waste water color from vacuuming sand.


I am going to continue to run Ozone daily (for the same 1 hour on / 1 hour off) and dose my DIY Coral Snow every few days. I am also going to continue to slowly increase my photo period (currently at 7 hours total, with a 5 hour peak until I get to my desired 12 hours total, and will then add in my other color LEDs to get my preferred daylight look). Also that $15 microscope was a great investment in figuring out what I was fighting in the first place, thank you for the recommendation.

Lower feeding amount slighty, I also dosed some MB7. I also lowered my 2 part dosing to slowly drop levels to desired parameters, I think they got out of whack because of my salinity issue and having several coral deaths as a result of the dinos."





I also have Dino's that popped up in a new tank I have, running bare bottom. Goal is an SPS focused mixed reef. I will add sand after I move. So from my previous lessons, this is my new plan going forward that I essentially started last night.

Again, I gleaned my approach from Leonard Ho ( https://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog/how-i-beat-dinoflagellates-and-the-lessons-i-learned ) and Sonny Harajly( http://reefsite.com/2015/01/dinoflagellates-and-the-treament-of/ ), but with some alteration from my last experience.


Dino battle in 45G Shallow Reef:

-3 day blackout. I didn't cover my tank though, just no lights. (Skimmer, Ozone, and GAC all running during the black out)

-dosed DIY Zeo Coral Snow daily (Calcium Carbonate https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/diy-kz-coral-snow-with-97-purity.211722/ ) This is a flocculent to help bind and remove the free floating Dino’s.

-Turkey bast the rocks and sand to get as many dinos free floating as possible so they get bound to the Calcium Carbonate slurry. Turkey Baster combined with the blackout was key to getting the dinos free floating so they could bind to the "Coral Snow".

-Run Carbon, and Skimmer!

-Siphon out all visible Dino’s with water changes and/or fine filter sock into sump.

-3% Hydrogen Peroxide(1ML per 10GL) & Ran my ozone per usual; Leonard Ho and Sonny in their articles both recommended Hydrogen Peroxide since neither ran Ozone, but the goal is they are doing a similar job. Ozone I don't believe is necessary as I have had the ozone on my tank for the past few months, but I only run it a little for each day. I didn't do H2O2 last time, but will try it on my current run.

-Add good bacteria

-After the 3 day black out, I will run my lights (AI Hydra 26HD's) with only blues and violets at 20-25% for 12 hours total, and do acclimation mode for 7-14 days after.

-Using Kalk as I normally do for Ca/Alk. I am using kalk on this new tank for the pH buffering and simplicity. I think Kalk is highly underutilized by most people.

-After the 3 day blackout, most of the dinoflagellates should appear to gone. I will do a water change at the end of the 3 day blackout while vacuum siphoning as much as possible, and add some bacteria Dr Tim's/MB7/etc.

-After about 4-7 days or so do another water change while primarily vacuum siphoning of my sandbed/rocks. At this point, there should not really be any reddish brown color (dinos) in my waste water, just the more common lighter brown waste water color from vacuuming sand/rocks.



I hope this helps. I've found that by going and looking at and using the methods a lot of the OG's (Anthony Calfo, Leonard Ho, Sonny, Dan Riggle, Ali from Amazing Aquariums & Reefs, WWC, etc) I've had the most success.
 
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